Navigation, maps and TL

[sgtcallistan]

I read that people who rely on powers of area knowledge such as taxi drivers develop an area of the brain until it swells larger than 'normal'.

Thier ability to recall places they are familiar with is increased over most others.

I have a character in an iron-age culture who lives by his ability to hunt and track, and carry news.

With several area knowledge skills (or more correctly an expanding area knowledge of 'where he has been'), naturalist, hidden lore (hunters'), plus his cultural knowledge of the calendar by sun, moon, plant, animal and seasonal phenomena, including festival dates, he can 'deduce' as I prefer it, by 'adding up' the evidence, where he is and where he must go to find locations known, even if by new routes.

It is hand-waved as a 'gift from the gods'; yet he has high IQ, is very fit and can feed himself well in the wilds.
The likely availability of food also directs his path.

By game rules, it stretches the rules; within the game, he's able to look at the sky, look at the peaks of mountains, recognise shapes and know that if he can find a pass, he can be home in three days, instead of two weeks going the way he came.

The map is in his head. On one occasion, he realised he'd gone further North than he'd ever been, as the places in his head were getting 'narrower', as all 'Norths' were actually converging a little.

It helps that the lands he lives in is much like Norway: many long, thin fjords and river valleys running broadly North-West to South-East in our case. :-)

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

That's more a problem with the rules for navigation than a problem with the rules for maps; maps that let you reliably go from an arbitrary position to another arbitrary position probably are TL 5, but following a trail, or going from landmark to landmark, is not, and a landmark map is much lower tech (an archeologist friend once showed me a Roman map of the empire. It was basically a link map, showing which cities connected to which cities, and how many days of travel, almost totally disconnected from the actual coordinates of the places).

As has been pointed out, see Low-Tech: It puts maps at TL0, mensuration at TL1, and the first systematic work on map projections at TL2, reaching fruition at TL4. Statements about the TL of low-tech gear in High-Tech are not the most reliable part of that book.

Low-Tech distinguishes three sorts of Navigation: landmark recognition (TL1), dead reckoning (late TL2/early TL3), and celestial navigation (late TL3/early TL5, depending on whether you get by with just latitude or also want longitude). All three have in common that your location is thought of in relation to some abstract concept of how the world is laid out, not just in terms of familiar local paths. But for finding your way around your village or your forest, Area Knowledge is perfectly suitable and a lot easier.

Bill Stoddard

[shawnhcorey]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. I have gone for walks through woods where I have never been before ad I have always known where I started from. I do not need a map to keep things straight.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by shawnhcorey

I don't know what you guys are talking about. I have gone for walks through woods where I have never been before ad I have always known where I started from. I do not need a map to keep things straight.

Lots of people do.

Bill Stoddard

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Lots of people do.

Bill Stoddard

Now I wonder what way of being unlike the most is better overall: Absolute Direction (which works like EM for any path taken in the last month, but also informs where North is and gives +3 to Navigation), or Eidetic Memory (which still fully remembers a path taken whenever, gives other goodies, doesn't give a straight Navigation bonus . . . but allows memorising a map and never buying/carrying it!).

[shawnhcorey]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Lots of people do.

Bill Stoddard

A lot people come with built-in navigation.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by shawnhcorey

I don't know what you guys are talking about. I have gone for walks through woods where I have never been before ad I have always known where I started from. I do not need a map to keep things straight.

Yeah, my map reading skills are terrible (unless I make it) and my direction giving is questionable (at best). They've improved over the years, but I remember telling someone how to get to my house by "Following the old, wet red shirt in the road and turn at the corner with the downed oak." That still gets brought up occasionally and we all have a good laugh. But I don't get lost. Pretty much ever - but my spatial memory is ridiculously accurate. I used to pack a 3 or 4 day bag and intentionally get "lost" in various locales so I could find my way out later. Of course, I do use a compass to double-check myself and a map (to also compare with my gut) - but you're a idiot if you don't do that in this day and age. Exposure can kill ya fast as anything else.

[whswhs]

Well, okay, those things sound kind of like Eidetic Memory (Aspected: Locations, -20%) [4]. That would give you, what, IQ+1 to find your way through a place you've been in? Maybe rising to IQ+6 if you're trying to do something really simple like deciding which way to go?

In any case, it's not Navigation. It's some sort of high level of Area Knowledge. And that's fine. But if you need to figure out how to get to location X, where you've never been before, from looking at a map, you're going to need Navigation.

I'm a very map oriented person: I always try to look at maps before I go someplace, I try to be aware of which way is north so I can related my position to the map, and I try to track where I am on the map that's in my head. If I'm off the map I'm lost.

Bill Stoddard

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Well, okay, those things sound kind of like Eidetic Memory (Aspected: Locations, -20%) [4]. That would give you, what, IQ+1 to find your way through a place you've been in? Maybe rising to IQ+6 if you're trying to do something really simple like deciding which way to go?

That's workable - but I'd let the bonus for Eidetic or Photographic Memory cancel out the penalty for not having the map as long as you've got at least a passing familiarity with the locale (e.g., you can default a relevant Area Knowledge or actually have points in it). The bonus from Eidetic Memory can never result in a net gain - it'd just be there to offset penalties.

Originally Posted by whswhs

In any case, it's not Navigation. It's some sort of high level of Area Knowledge. And that's fine. But if you need to figure out how to get to location X, where you've never been before, from looking at a map, you're going to need Navigation.

Sorry, but I gotta disagree. People who consult maps for a city, the mall, neighborhood - whatever could easily use a map to augment their Area Knowledge skill as well as your Navigation. While you could easily say people are defaulting Navigation for that one task, it seems odd that you couldn't use Area Knowledge instead.

Originally Posted by whswhs

I'm a very map oriented person: I always try to look at maps before I go someplace, I try to be aware of which way is north so I can related my position to the map, and I try to track where I am on the map that's in my head. If I'm off the map I'm lost.

A wonderful habit to have. As bad as I am with them, I try to do the same thing. Even passing knowledge of a area can be super helpful later on (as I have learned the very hard way).

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

Sorry, but I gotta disagree. People who consult maps for a city, the mall, neighborhood - whatever could easily use a map to augment their Area Knowledge skill as well as your Navigation. While you could easily say people are defaulting Navigation for that one task, it seems odd that you couldn't use Area Knowledge instead.

I'll grant that if you're trying to find your way to a specific location in an area you're familiar with. "Okay, it looks like the vacuum cleaner repair place is three blocks west of this branch of my bank." But I was thinking of "where is Oporto and what course do I set to get there?"

Bill Stoddard