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Old 03-14-2010, 12:52 AM   #1
dds_ks
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default multi-limited magery

B66 and B67: The rulebook says (quote):

Magery 0 costs 5 points for all
mages, but you may apply one of the
limitations below to the 10 points/level
for Magery 1+.

Which word is more important: "one" (in italics) or "below"?

In other words: does the rulebook allow to take more than one limitation, if the other limitation(s) are not mentioned in the description of special limitations for magery on page 67, but are taken from B110 to B117 or other rulebooks (Fantasy, Thaumatology, Powers)?

Believe it or not: in my group we have a very emotional debate about this, some players even threaten to leave the group because of this...
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Old 03-14-2010, 01:19 AM   #2
starslayer
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Default Re: multi-limited magery

So long as the limitations do not interact (ever) you can stack them. I believe it says this in thaumaturge.

Solitary ceremonial only comes to mind as a valid combination: The fact that your spells take a minimum of ten seconds and the fact that you are at significant penalties to cast with others present will never overlap, but may combine to make it take a long time to cast spells that will be at significant penalty with others around.
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Old 03-14-2010, 05:47 AM   #3
Christian
 
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Default Re: multi-limited magery

Lets take as example one of the eight limitations from B66/67, and uncontrollable. They do interact, though could they still work together?
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Old 03-14-2010, 08:36 AM   #4
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: multi-limited magery

Both words are important. You choose one of the limitations in the list below, which is to say the list of aspects for magery, not the list of all limitations.

This is partly because the aspects don't always make sense in combination ("dark" and "day" aspects), but also because they are special cases of the Accessibility limitation, which doesn't increase linearly. (As such, most of the Magery discounts are already over-generous IMO.) A -80% Accessibility means a power that's available less than 5% of the time. Two -40% Magery limitations are likely not even to be an additional limitation ("dark" and "night" overlap greatly; "dark" and "musical" overlap completely). I'd allow combinations of the Magery aspects, but I'd also reprice the value of the total aspect.

As always, GM consideration needs to come into play for complicated limitations, particularly on subsets of the total amount of Magery, to make sure nothing gets broken.
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Old 03-20-2010, 06:10 AM   #5
dds_ks
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Default Re: multi-limited magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
Both words are important. You choose one of the limitations in the list below, which is to say the list of aspects for magery, not the list of all limitations.
...
I'd allow combinations of the Magery aspects, but I'd also reprice the value of the total aspect.
...
Sorry, I'm not sure that I got you right. Do you want to say that you can take only one of the special limitations and any number of other limitations from pages 110-118?
So you can't combine musical with day-aspected, but (nearly) any other combination would be possible?
Or is your opinion that magery can't use the limitations form 110-118 at all, and so only can have one of the special limitations? (At least as far as "Characters" is concerned...)
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:57 AM   #6
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: multi-limited magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by dds_ks View Post
Or is your opinion that magery can't use the limitations form 110-118 at all, and so only can have one of the special limitations? (At least as far as "Characters" is concerned...)
You can apply the general limiters to Magery, but some care is necessary when evaluating just how much the trait is being affected. Thaumatology devotes several pages to the concept of limited Magery, showing [for instance, and of particular relevance to your questions] when it is OK to limit Magery 0, and how to apply standard limitations to Magery.
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Old 03-20-2010, 10:08 AM   #7
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: multi-limited magery

I mean that (in my opinion) you can apply any limitations to Magery. Only one of the "aspects" listed for the Magery advantage can be chosen, which has no bearing on the other limitations.

I'd actually go further and allow some combinations of aspects for Magery. But I wouldn't calculate their value by adding up the values in the book. For example, if "night" is -40% and "musical" is -40%, I wouldn't grant -80% for the two together.

GM consideration is always necessary when building characters. The rules are guidelines, not weapons for the players to use against the GM or vice versa. The character concept should suggest which limitations the mage has. Only then do you consider the game mechanics, work out a build, and discuss it between player and GM.

The "one limitation only" rule in the Magery advantage is a simple shorthand to avoid this debate, recognizing that most of the possible combinations are either logically inconsistent or not additionally limited. Rather than try to list 8x8 = 64 possible combinations and discuss their effects (or 8x8x8...) the book just says "one only", erring on the side of excluding a few potentially interesting combinations in favor of a simple way to avoid the vast majority of silly or broken combinations.
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