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Old 02-16-2008, 01:40 PM   #121
Maz
 
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mook
Unless I'm looking at a different place, the -3 seems to already be there ("Opts to Parry and Retreat (by rolling, B377), as well as spend 1 FP to choose Feverish Defense (optional, B357). Rolls 3d6 against his effective Parry of 15 (-3 for being Prone, +3 for Retreat, +2 for Feverish Defense) and gets 14 - he Parries")
Whops, you are right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mook
I agree, but that the format of the examples may be unclear - Zach received the Shock penalty on Turn Two, so to me that means he suffers the Shock penalty during Turn Three, and it is gone at the start of Turn Four? "After Zach has raised himself to a kneeling position" would be Turn Four to me, since Turn Three is when he's changing posture.
Uhm, that confused me a bit?

This is how I think it should be:
Turn 2. Zach falls prone because Arthur parries his kick with his sword.
Arthur then tries to stab him but Zach makes his retreating parry.

Turn 3. Zach rises to Kneeling. He is still suffering from the -4 Shock penalty. But as soon as he is done changing position, his turn is over and he has no more Shock anymore.

So when he has to Parry again he shouldn't be suffering from Shock. (Not that it matters for the result, but still).

It is just the "Shock: -4", from the following I would have you remove.
Quote:
Zach Red HP: 6, FP: 8, Shock: -4
Opts to spend 1 FP to choose Feverish Defense. Rolls 3d6 against his effective Parry of 13 (-2 for Kneeling, +2 for Feverish Defense) and gets 15 - he fails to Parry.
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:14 PM   #122
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maz
This is how I think it should be:
Turn 2. Zach falls prone because Arthur parries his kick with his sword.
Arthur then tries to stab him but Zach makes his retreating parry.

Turn 3. Zach rises to Kneeling. He is still suffering from the -4 Shock penalty. But as soon as he is done changing position, his turn is over and he has no more Shock anymore.

So when he has to Parry again he shouldn't be suffering from Shock. (Not that it matters for the result, but still).
Hmm - still not sure, let me try once more. (Just as an aside, the Shock penalty wouldn't apply to Active Defenses anyway, just actual skill use).

Zach suffers shock during his second turn - B419, suffer shock "...on your next turn only". So, for the entirety of Zach's third turn, he is suffering shock, which is gone by the time he starts his fourth turn.

I think we're seeing the actual rule the same way, but disagreeing on how it's written in the example? Putting "Shock: -4" in the header of Zach's third turn to me means he is impaired by shock for his whole third turn; in the header of his fourth turn it's no longer there. His turn is over once he's done changing position, but up until that point the shock was in place.
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:22 PM   #123
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mook
Hmm - still not sure, let me try once more. (Just as an aside, the Shock penalty wouldn't apply to Active Defenses anyway, just actual skill use).

Zach suffers shock during his second turn - B419, suffer shock "...on your next turn only". So, for the entirety of Zach's third turn, he is suffering shock, which is gone by the time he starts his fourth turn.

I think we're seeing the actual rule the same way, but disagreeing on how it's written in the example? Putting "Shock: -4" in the header of Zach's third turn to me means he is impaired by shock for his whole third turn; in the header of his fourth turn it's no longer there. His turn is over once he's done changing position, but up until that point the shock was in place.
His 3rd turn is over as soon as it's over, not when his 4th turn starts.
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:43 PM   #124
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mook
[...]Zach suffers shock during his second turn - B419, suffer shock "...on your next turn only". So, for the entirety of Zach's third turn, he is suffering shock, which is gone by the time he starts his fourth turn.[...]
I think of it the same way, but nontheless there shouldn't be a shock penalty during Zach's second turn but in the example it says so twice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralRunner
His 3rd turn is over as soon as it's over, not when his 4th turn starts.
Well, it depends, normaly this is true but when it comes to active defenses the interpretation is a bit broader (see 3.4.1.3 In combat, when does your turn end?).
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Old 02-16-2008, 03:12 PM   #125
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralRunner
His 3rd turn is over as soon as it's over, not when his 4th turn starts.
Agreed - but the header information is a snapshot of the character's state at the beginning of their turn. The exception being when HP/FP/Shock changes, I've been in the habit of putting it in the header of the turn during which it occurs for convenience. Should I possibly have two strips of character info, "as the turn starts" at the top and "as the turn ends" at the bottom? Seemed kind of overkill, but I'm beginning to think the way I have it now isn't as clear as I thought it was. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordHelmet
I think of it the same way, but nontheless there shouldn't be a shock penalty during Zach's second turn but in the example it says so twice.
That lost me - are you saying you shouldn't suffer shock penalties during the turn they're inflicted, then suffer them on the following turn, then they go away?

I've been assuming it's more like 'suffer shock penalties immediately (i.e., for the remainder of the turn in which they're inflicted) and then for the duration of the next turn'.
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Old 02-16-2008, 03:28 PM   #126
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

This line...

TURN THREE
Zach Red HP: 6, FP: 9, Shock: -4
Maneuver: Change Posture (Prone to Kneeling)

... and the line before it are fine. Those should have the shock penalty. It is everything after this that should have the shock penalty removed.
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Old 02-16-2008, 04:33 PM   #127
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Fixed (I think/hope/pray :) )
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Old 02-16-2008, 05:00 PM   #128
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

That looks right to me.
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Old 02-16-2008, 10:44 PM   #129
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Cool - I appreciate everyone continuing to beat their head against the wall when I just don't seem to be getting it. Maybe I should stop working on these with the tv on in the background. :P

Next one in the pipe is Ranged Four ... same as Ranged Three, but the shooter misses by one so gets a Torso hit instead of a Head shot.
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Old 02-17-2008, 12:25 AM   #130
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Default Re: Examples of 4e Combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mook
[...]That lost me - are you saying you shouldn't suffer shock penalties during the turn they're inflicted, then suffer them on the following turn, then they go away?
Yes, that is what I am saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mook
I've been assuming it's more like 'suffer shock penalties immediately (i.e., for the remainder of the turn in which they're inflicted) and then for the duration of the next turn'.
But you quotet the RAW yourself on this toppic "Whenever you suffer injury, reduce your DX and IQ [...] on your next turn only" (B419).
Which in my reading implies, that you don't suffer from it neither the turn you wehre hit nor two turn after it - but only on your next turn.
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