[Basic] Skill of the week: Body Control

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

But controlling micro-expressions is not realistic. So I would prefer some use of a cinematic skill to overcome it rather than just allowing mundane skills to have cinematic effect.
I suppose that's just my preference.

When I heard that teh microexpressoanalytix is teh undefeatable back during the pitch for Lie To Me, I was immediately suspicious. Every time someone advertises something as irresistible, incapable of failure etc., BS meters go off the scale.
Forcing someone to rely on a cinematic skill to resist Body Language and Detect Lies seems very fishy from a gaming perspective too.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

When I heard that teh microexpressoanalytix is teh undefeatable back during the pitch for Lie To Me, I was immediately suspicious. Every time someone advertises something as irresistible, incapable of failure etc., BS meters go off the scale.
Forcing someone to rely on a cinematic skill to resist Body Language and Detect Lies seems very fishy from a gaming perspective too.

There's very little proof that "microexpressions" actually mean anything useful at all.

[Flyndaran]

More a description of all movements of the face and body that humans can't detect than anything specific, I would say.
If a program can detect something we can't, then I'm fine calling them such things.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Forcing someone to rely on a cinematic skill to resist Body Language and Detect Lies seems very fishy from a gaming perspective too.

The hierarchy I was thinking of is:

Acting can resist Body Language or Detect Lies (BL/DL), with a contest of skills, as per RAW.

Body Control might have a serious advantage in such a contest. A success could just mean that BL/DL didn't work at all, or could enable actively misleading them with a contest of skills.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

But controlling micro-expressions is not realistic.

It's at least as realistic as microexpressions are. The whole point of Body Language, face-reading, etc. is to be informed about the subject's emotional state in a given context, and it's not as if people can't manipulate their own emotions, or distract themselves with painful stimuli or memories, or have poor laaguage skills most of the other tricks and dodges from BLADE RUNNER-related properties.

[Humabout]

I'd let someone roll against Body Control as a complimentary skill to Acting when resisting Detect Lies and Body Language. Not sure about just rolling against Body Control on its own. Maybe a Will-based roll to resist polygraphs?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

More a description of all movements of the face and body that humans can't detect than anything specific, I would say.
If a program can detect something we can't, then I'm fine calling them such things.

They haven't been shown to actually mean anything. If a machine can detect them, and they are meaningless noise, then it's not really useful. Garbage in/garbage out.

Even if they do mean something, they mean that the person has a thought (that they may not even be consciously aware of) about something briefly that causes an emotional response, it isn't necessarily relevant to anything they are saying or that the interrogator is interested in.

[Flyndaran]

I meant my posts to refer to emotional states only, not complex lies and subtle deception.
The real research is geared toward pain identification in hospital settings. Identify the drug seekers and how much to treat actual pain.

I personally was mocked by two nurses in the E.R. for complaining about my sore throat. It was one of the worst pains of my life.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Humabout

I'd let someone roll against Body Control as a complimentary skill to Acting when resisting Detect Lies and Body Language. Not sure about just rolling against Body Control on its own. Maybe a Will-based roll to resist polygraphs?

Complimentary Skills are always a good thing.
As for resisting polygraph, maybe I'd even go further, such as making it skill+2 to +5, since it's a pretty rare skill that allows rather fine control of body functions. I mean, it better be good compared just using straight Will even after a minimal point investment. Besides, opponents can always decide to ditch the polygraph entirely, particularly if they have Intuition.

[Humabout]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Complimentary Skills are always a good thing.
As for resisting polygraph, maybe I'd even go further, such as making it skill+2, since it's a pretty rare skill that allows rather fine control of body functions. I mean, it better be good compared just using straight Will even after a minimal point investment. Besides, opponents can always decide to ditch the polygraph entirely, particularly if they have Intuition.

That's a good point. For 8 points, you probably should get better than just "as good as what you'd have had without it". Heck, even if you used an optional specialty specifically for fooling polygraphs, it still costs 4 points to do what you could with Will. Rolling at +2 would make it cost 2 points to match Will and do anything else Body Control lets you do. Thinking on it, I'd even make Fool Polygraph an average technique that defaults to Body Control+2 and can be bought up on its own.

[EDIT]
Actually, thinking more about this, if you were to take Resistant to Polygraphs (+3), it'd run [2]. So that's Will+3 for 2 points, as opposed to Will+3 for [16] with Body Control (Polygraph Results). Perhaps screwing with a polygraph should fall under not-typically-stressful routine use category that anyone with the skill should be able to accomplish. Give fooling a polygraph a +4 bonus, so that with 2 points in it, you pop out at attribute+3.