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Old 03-09-2023, 07:35 AM   #11
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Location: Indiana
Default Re: Two-handed Weapons Disincentivized

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
The thoroughly researched GURPS material gives weapons like two-handed swords greater reach than smaller swords. Even with TFT hexes being a bit larger than GURPS hexes, it seems reasonable to me that one could lunge and stab with a two-handed sword targets two hexes away. It is more difficult to imagine an axe being used like this.
As an side observer in this part of the discussion, I will probably drop this question about 2-Handed weapon reach to an SCA coworker of mine. He's been involved with them for well over 30 years and known as an armorer among them. Unless otherwise informed, I would allow for an extra hex of reach for a thrust attack with a 2-Handed sword. I don't know if that could be given to a bastard sword. Depends upon length.


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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
I'm not advocating for a separation of 1-handed and 2-handed Weapon Expertise, but just a lowering of the IQ prerequisite for Weapon Expertise (and Mastery).
I have some characters built with weapon expertise with the intention of reaching mastery. I will go back and look through them to see the impact of lowering the IQ requirements. I think that I will look at a similar impact for shield expertise.

Last edited by Bill_in_IN; 03-09-2023 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 03-10-2023, 09:01 PM   #12
John.A.Hanna
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Default Re: Two-handed Weapons Disincentivized

To make two-handed weapons useful for beginning characters, they need some support. This support can be Aid spells from Wizards, whips or bolas to knock an opponent prone, or the ability to reach an opponent's side or flank. Otherwise, they swing and miss a lot. When they do hit, it is usually a severe wound or kill, which heavy armor may or may not mitigate.
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Old 03-11-2023, 09:31 AM   #13
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
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Default Re: Two-handed Weapons Disincentivized

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Originally Posted by John.A.Hanna View Post
To make two-handed weapons useful for beginning characters, they need some support. This support can be Aid spells from Wizards, whips or bolas to knock an opponent prone, or the ability to reach an opponent's side or flank. Otherwise, they swing and miss a lot. When they do hit, it is usually a severe wound or kill, which heavy armor may or may not mitigate.
Great answer
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Old 03-16-2023, 05:56 PM   #14
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
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Default Re: Two-handed Weapons Disincentivized

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Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN View Post
As an side observer in this part of the discussion, I will probably drop this question about 2-Handed weapon reach to an SCA coworker of mine. He's been involved with them for well over 30 years and known as an armorer among them. Unless otherwise informed, I would allow for an extra hex of reach for a thrust attack with a 2-Handed sword. I don't know if that could be given to a bastard sword. Depends upon length.
I spoke with my SCA coworker. The ultimate answer is that it depends on the length. The assumption is that a one handed long sword or a bastard sword is 4 ft long blade. It's easier to reach past a 4 ft hex into the hex with a one handed weapon than with a two handed weapon. Leaning out and not messing with your balance is easier with a longer one handed weapon. However, a thrust attack with a two handed sword could reach two hexes even though it's hard to take a swing that far away.

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Old 03-20-2023, 05:30 AM   #15
Bill_in_IN
 
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Default Re: Two-handed Weapons Disincentivized

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I spoke with my SCA coworker. The ultimate answer is that it depends on the length. The assumption is that a one handed long sword or a bastard sword is 4 ft long blade. It's easier to reach past a 4 ft hex into the hex with a one handed weapon than with a two handed weapon. Leaning out and not messing with your balance is easier with a longer one handed weapon. However, a thrust attack with a two handed sword could reach two hexes even though it's hard to take a swing that far away.
We actually did these comparisons with a measuring tape at 4 ft. Pole weapons longer than a javelin can definitely reach at least 2 hexes away but most greater than 6 ft. could reach 3 hexes away for a jab attack. I saw nothing in ITL about the length of 2-Handed or Great Swords. It would have to be assumed that the blades are, at least, 4 ft long. This could put them at ~5 ft. long or more. Per the video at this link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuAtjrg2Muw), Both swing attacks and thrust attacks could reach 2 hexes away provided that the blade is longer than 4 ft. So, a bastard sword would have the extra reach but the 2-handed and Great Swords do.

Also, after looking at a few examples, the weight of 2-Handed and Great Swords in ITL are running twice as heavy as these examples. So, one may want to house rule these weapons to be lighter.
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Old 03-20-2023, 07:43 AM   #16
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Two-handed Weapons Disincentivized

The only sword notable for jabbing at a distance is the rapier.

To make a two hex attack the weapon must reach 6 feet from your own center of mass plus another six inches into the target.
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Old 03-20-2023, 08:44 AM   #17
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Two-handed Weapons Disincentivized

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The only sword notable for jabbing at a distance is the rapier.
I don't know what would make one think that a bastard sword is any less suited to thrusting than a rapier, particularly when the former's blade is typically longer and ends in a sharp point, and a popular technique for using it focused on stabbing attacks.
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Old 03-20-2023, 09:49 AM   #18
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Two-handed Weapons Disincentivized

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I don't know what would make one think that a bastard sword is any less suited to thrusting than a rapier, particularly when the former's blade is typically longer and ends in a sharp point, and a popular technique for using it focused on stabbing attacks.
And the average rapier has a blade that's a half-foot longer (41 vs 35 inches).

The TFT "rapier" has the stats of a smallsword and so rightly isn't a "jab capable" weapon in our rules, but a three foot blade of a bastard sword held two feet out from your center of mass is one and half feet short of that two-hex jab. If we had a finer scale for time and space then the length advantage over the dagger-staff would be clear enough, but our game isn't that complex.
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Old 03-20-2023, 01:50 PM   #19
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Two-handed Weapons Disincentivized

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And the average rapier has a blade that's a half-foot longer (41 vs 35 inches).
There's a lot of variation, but bastard swords can be as long as your listed size of rapier.
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...a three foot blade of a bastard sword held two feet out from your center of mass is one and half feet short of that two-hex jab.
Keep in mind that one doesn't generally stand erect while making a thrusting attack at distance (say a two-hex jab), but lunges forward, extending one's reach considerably. I am not a tall person by any stretch, but, with a sword with a 30-inch blade, I can reach a target 8 feet away.
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Old 03-20-2023, 09:20 PM   #20
Bill_in_IN
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
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Default Re: Two-handed Weapons Disincentivized

Did you all see the two-handed sword demonstration in the link that I posted? Reaching 2 hexes didn't seem like much of a problem for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuAtjrg2Muw
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