Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-18-2021, 09:52 AM   #1
johndallman
Night Watchman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Language Talent and Omnilingual

Language Talent [10] is a mundane mental advantage. You have a significant talent for languages, and when you learn one, you get a discount on the cost. You can learn a language at Accented for [2], or at Native for [4]. This advantage appeared in this form at GURPS 4e, when languages became advantages, rather than skills.

Omnilingual [40 or 80] is an Unusual Background, originally from Supers, and expanded in Pyramid #3/54 Social Engineering. You don’t know all languages, just lots of them, and every one that comes up in the game is one you conveniently happen to have studied. You know them at Accented, or Native if you also have Language Talent. Applying this to a planet like Earth, with thousands of languages, is [40], and having it for a setting with many inhabited planets and alien species is [80]. You can take Cosmic, +50%, to make this into a super-power that translates all languages automatically, even if you had no way to learn them, or Aspected, ‑10% (or more), to limit it by geography or language family.

Under 3e, languages were IQ-based skills, and literacy was an advantage. Language Talent added to IQ like a standard 4e Talent. This sounds good, in that it gives a wider range of language skill levels, but there was a problem with deciding what skill level was necessary to pass as a native. If it was IQ level, smart characters with Language Talent could pass as low-IQ natives far too easily; if it was higher, ordinary people had large numbers of points in their native language.

The 4e approach to languages is not perfect, but it works better. It defines the level necessary to pass as a native, although adding Cultural Familiarity and skills such as Area Knowledge makes impersonation more reliable. 4e also fits very well with the CEFR system for describing language proficiency. That’s useful for dealing with language divergence, over time or between worlds, as described on p. 175 of Infinite Worlds.

Language Talent is invaluable if a wide range of languages are in use in the setting. While it’s a reasonable starting purchase for characters with a social focus, I’ve played in and run long-term campaigns where it becomes worthwhile for all the characters. Social Engineering: Back to School has a rule for acquiring this advantage in play, which I originally invented for the Infinite Cabal campaign. Applying the Accessibility limitation from Omnilingual to it seems plausible, as would informal benefits to Linguistics when trying to get to grips with an unknown language.

Omnilingual makes most language details irrelevant, but is expensive and highly cinematic. Language Talent is somewhat realistic.

Language Talent is a moderately common option on published templates. Bio-Tech can engineer it at TL10, and DF9 points out that mediums need to speak the same language as the spirits they converse with. Infinite Worlds gives informal benefits when dealing with divergent languages for this trait, and Mars Attacks adds wildcard languages, for language groups within a family, simplified from Pyramid #3/54. MH Power-Ups 1 adds Master Linguist, built on Modular Abilities, and Power-Ups 2, at the other end of the scale, has a perk that allows you to understand, but not speak, a language, or vice-versa.

Omnilingual appears only in Supers and Pyramid articles. There is no published language anti-talent, and I suspect it would simply be the quirk “doesn’t learn other languages.”

Learning languages is something that takes time: just buying them with bonus points in the course of a game stretches believability. For Infinite Cabal, where the characters were hugely intelligent and had lots of points to spend after one long expedition, I required 50 hours of training per point they were spending, simply to acquire vocabulary. For lesser minds, at TLs where books and teaching were well-developed, a method that has worked well for me is to spend 200 hours being taught a level of spoken language, and spending a bonus point to acquire the corresponding level of written language along with it. That allowed reasonably fast learning without excessive suspension of disbelief.

How have Language Talent, Omnilingual, and languages in general played in your games?
johndallman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2021, 11:00 AM   #2
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Language Talent and Omnilingual

I see language talent and omni-lingual as mere price breakpoints for language costs. You've got to be going in pretty deep to want them though.



Languages are a part of most settings, and while they can be annoying, they can also add deep flavor to the game. I like to give out discounts for learning them, such as knowing the forest people tongue lets you buy the village people tongue at 1 point less. I also love messing around with writing systems, making some languages not have them and others having many languages use one writing system.



If a language is very rare and only serves as a code for two players I let them buy it as a perk.



Most of my fantasy games have had languages in them, and most of my infinite worlds games have had them too.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2021, 11:23 AM   #3
RogerBW
 
RogerBW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: near London, UK
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Language Talent and Omnilingual

Language Talent is one of the few GURPS traits that has a simple and obvious calculation: it gains you 2 points per (written+spoken) language, so if you want more than 5 languages (or 10 separate written/spoken half-languages), you should get it. I've used it whenever that's been appropriate.

(Even in the latest edition the talent writeup says "next-highest level" when it should say "next higher level".)

It does mean that you don't speak Broken anything: you jump straight from nothing to Accented.

I wrote up a fairly extensive languages-as-skills article for Pyramid #3/44, but even I would advise caution: "we don't understand the locals" is one plot element that you use once, not something that's fun every adventure. I'd use my more complex language system not for that but for a game in which it really matters just how effective your French poetry (or Italian propaganda) is even though you didn't grow up speaking the language.

Because "we don't understand" isn't fun, I think it would be a rare game that gave full point value for Omnilingual, and I've never seen it used. But I don't tend to play games in which it would be possible.
RogerBW is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2021, 02:12 PM   #4
dcarson
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Language Talent and Omnilingual

In a Stargate campaign I house ruled that the linguist with language Talent and Serendipity could use unspent points to happen to know any language needed. However if we established that he didn't know it he had to learn it the normal way if he wanted it later.
dcarson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2021, 02:30 PM   #5
Phantasm
 
Phantasm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the road again...
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Language Talent and Omnilingual

I've used Omnilingual with Temporary Disadvantage (Shutdown): Electrical (-20%) to represent "universal translator" implants, and with a Magical PM (-10%) to represent various spells/enchantments.
__________________
"Life ... is an Oreo cookie." - J'onn J'onzz, 1991

"But mom, I don't wanna go back in the dungeon!"

The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
Phantasm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2021, 05:57 PM   #6
Tyneras
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky, USA
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Language Talent and Omnilingual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
I've used Omnilingual with Temporary Disadvantage (Shutdown): Electrical (-20%) to represent "universal translator" implants, and with a Magical PM (-10%) to represent various spells/enchantments.
Given that, today, I can have a conversation with someone who does not speak my language nor I theirs, even if that conversation isn't very speedy and has trouble with nuance, I've made "Has a translator program for all known common languages" a 0 point feature at TL 9+. A Star Trek style one would be a 1 point perk, though your build is good for when most people don't have access to a translator of some sort.

I struggle with languages, since I either do or don't want the players communicating with various NPCs, I don't want to short circuit the plot nor waste their points. My solution has been to give a list of languages they will encounter and they need to figure out who speaks what so the whole list is covered. Assuming they don't all have a translator program or magic crystal or something similar.

My most memorable language based encounter was when Anna, an Irish woman from the middle ages, was on an alien planet and and had all her clothing stolen while she was taking a bath, including her magic translation crystal. Had to get by with Gesture at default until we got everything back because she had no common languages with any PC or NPC.
__________________
GURPS Fanzine The Path of Cunning is worth a read.
Tyneras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2021, 03:15 AM   #7
Crystalline_Entity
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: England
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Language Talent and Omnilingual

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
I've used Omnilingual with Temporary Disadvantage (Shutdown): Electrical (-20%) to represent "universal translator" implants, and with a Magical PM (-10%) to represent various spells/enchantments.
That's an interesting take on it. I tried to mimic the same ability with Modular Abilities, e.g.
Code:
Slotted Cosmic Power (6) (Languages Only, -50%) [19] 
Telepathic Learning (6) (Languages Only, -50%) [15]
(both modular abilities from Psionic Powers). I guess the difference is that the modular ability approach first takes time to slot (even if it's only one second for the cosmic one), and secondly that you can only understand one other language at a time. Omnilingual allows you to parse multiple languages without delay (or simultaneous with Compartmentalised Mind).
Crystalline_Entity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2021, 07:13 AM   #8
awesomenessofme1
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Language Talent and Omnilingual

In a few of my TL10 space settings, I make translators for commonly known languages either a 1-point Accessory perk or a moderately expensive headset or software. If it's an obscure language or one with other utility, I might still let someone buy languages in such a setting.
awesomenessofme1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2021, 07:27 AM   #9
WingedKagouti
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Language Talent and Omnilingual

Languages, Language Talent and Omnilingual feel like they should be used more unless the campaign is set in a single nation/city with one language and no "outsiders" or second languages.

But unless used sparingly it risks ending up with lots of "I guess the rest of us need to wait for character x to finish talking with NPC y", which can often make for onesided and uninteresting sessions.
WingedKagouti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2021, 08:13 AM   #10
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Language Talent and Omnilingual

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedKagouti View Post
Languages, Language Talent and Omnilingual feel like they should be used more unless the campaign is set in a single nation/city with one language and no "outsiders" or second languages.

But unless used sparingly it risks ending up with lots of "I guess the rest of us need to wait for character x to finish talking with NPC y", which can often make for onesided and uninteresting sessions.

The thing is, extra languages are expensive and they SHOULD be expensive: they are not trivial things to pick up. That other game gave them out essentially for free as background traits, because its hard to justify buying languages in a game about killing things and taking their stuff.



My games in which language featured most prominently weren't combat games. Lost in Dreams had language come up a few times, but that game was about exploring new worlds, and points were gained by simply spending time to learn things. Banestorm Atlante featured several civilizations meeting each other for the first time. The language barrier was an explicit obstacle to the PC's goals of establishing diplomatic relations and trade, and we had fun watching them scramble to acquire languages, interpreters, and magical translation techniques. The language issue was also helped by the PC's having slightly different goals, and all being different flavors of "face" (Merchant, Diplomat, General, Statesman), so they didn't want to just let one person do all of the talking and let them care about languages. Also, major splitting of the party throughout the game.
__________________
Be helpful, not pedantic

Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog

Check out the PbP forum! If you don't see a game you'd like, ask me about making one!
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advantage of the week, language talent, omnilingual

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.