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Old 10-09-2014, 02:37 PM   #841
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
What I intended was for his hearing and smell to be roughly equivalent in acuity, with the smell also doubling as "*sniff* he's lying". I haven't yet checked the books to see if Discriminatory Smell has the +4; the current stat block kinda assumes it does.
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Originally Posted by Basic Set Characters p. 49
You get +4 (in addition to any Acute Taste and Smell bonuses) on any task that utilizes the sense of smell, and receive a +4 to Tracking Skill.
The wording seems somewhat odd... do basic Perception rolls count as a "task"? Logically I would not expect the two +4 bonuses in the cited text to stack, but the way it is worded, it almost sounds like it would (yet logically it shouldn't). Maybe it is just an English fail on my part? >_<

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Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
Any thoughts on Wolvie's claws? I wasn't entirely sure building them as Strikers was the right way, or whether his Modified ST-Based Damage advantage has the right Accessibility? (I added the Accessibility because I figured his headbutt or regular punches wouldn't have an AD(infinite), though thinking back on it an AD(2) isn't out of the question for his regular melee attacks).
As you might have guessed, this section is a bit technical for my current level of understanding. I mean, I am having trouble with Injury Tolerance: Unbreakable Bones. It seems tailor made for Wolverine, but ignores that canonically Wolverine can permanently lose a limb. Off the top of my head, there is his "Age of Apocalypse" counterpart; yes normally an alternate reality version would be questionable, but this one expressly shows up as a result of Legion (David Haller) somehow overwriting the Earth 616 timeline, and Wolverine's AoA counterpart starred in the four issue "Weapon X" comic book that replaced Wolverine's solo title for the duration of the crossover.

So the fact that that Wolverine lost a hand seems relevant; specifically when in an altercation with Cyclops who blasted the flesh to oblivion (and I am guessing scattering the adamantium covered bone fragments), preventing the limb from actually healing. Or is that so specific it can be ignored? Plenty of potent "blasters" in the MU.

I am scared to try and discuss the claws; Adamantium itself is less "unbreakable" than it was "back in the day"; unsurprising with a long running, popular character but more and more exceptions to it being "unbreakable" seem to pop up, and many are simply raw force (as opposed to things that should be applying the Cosmic Modifier).
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Old 10-09-2014, 03:49 PM   #842
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
As you might have guessed, this section is a bit technical for my current level of understanding. I mean, I am having trouble with Injury Tolerance: Unbreakable Bones. It seems tailor made for Wolverine, but ignores that canonically Wolverine can permanently lose a limb. Off the top of my head, there is his "Age of Apocalypse" counterpart; yes normally an alternate reality version would be questionable, but this one expressly shows up as a result of Legion (David Haller) somehow overwriting the Earth 616 timeline, and Wolverine's AoA counterpart starred in the four issue "Weapon X" comic book that replaced Wolverine's solo title for the duration of the crossover.

So the fact that that Wolverine lost a hand seems relevant; specifically when in an altercation with Cyclops who blasted the flesh to oblivion (and I am guessing scattering the adamantium covered bone fragments), preventing the limb from actually healing. Or is that so specific it can be ignored? Plenty of potent "blasters" in the MU.

I am scared to try and discuss the claws; Adamantium itself is less "unbreakable" than it was "back in the day"; unsurprising with a long running, popular character but more and more exceptions to it being "unbreakable" seem to pop up, and many are simply raw force (as opposed to things that should be applying the Cosmic Modifier).
Remember that I am not trying to depict the characters as they are "now", but after the Living Tribunal basically resets Earth-616 and several related timelines (hence the use of "reboot" in the thread title).

That said, the entry I have for Wolverine states that while his bones are unbreakable, his joints are still subject to dislocation (and possible removal). Mind, I'm not sure if IT:Unbreakable Bones [5] is a mechanical fit for that, even though it's a good thematic fit.

As for the claws, they're "Cutting/Impaling Striker (Armor Divisor: Infinite; Switchable)", with "Modified ST-Based Damage (Armor Divisor: Infinite; Accessibility: Only With Strikers)", doing about 2d+1 (inf) cut/imp per hit.
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Old 10-09-2014, 03:55 PM   #843
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Remind me again where the numbers come from; I thought Wolverine was 5'3" and 300 lbs (with adamantium - without he clocks in at 195 lbs.).

Being overweight does not mean you're "over-fat", though that is a pretty common misconception. Muscle (of the same volume) weighs more than fat (it is denser); generally Wolverine is depicted (and obviously this doesn't match the live action films) as short and stocky. He isn't fat, but he's not "trim", "skinny", "thin" etc. or even "average". While plenty of people use it as an excuse, body shape/build (apart from how muscled you are) really does make a difference.

....
The weight disadvantages limit HT, so they are specifically about fat and presumed negative health aspects thereof.
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Old 10-09-2014, 03:56 PM   #844
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
...
Exactly my reasoning. For a Real Life example, Arnold Schwarzenegger at the start of his acting career was extremely well-muscled, being a world-class body-builder. By the numbers of the BMI, he would have been considered "obese", though no one looking at him would have called him that.
BMI is garbage, pure and simple, and has no place in adult discussions about health, body fat, or anything.
If any doctor used the term without a sarcastic smirk I would immediately change doctors.
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:05 PM   #845
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
What I intended was for his hearing and smell to be roughly equivalent in acuity, with the smell also doubling as "*sniff* he's lying". I haven't yet checked the books to see if Discriminatory Smell has the +4; the current stat block kinda assumes it does.
...).
Most people don't understand just how much information even super smelling real world humans can get from olfaction alone.
Sleeping mammals and those that just woke up have a distinct odor, for example. It was one of my favorite smells and quite distinct from general exhaustion which smells nasty.
To risk ticking off some, different families/ethnicities do smell different irrespective of diets. Wolverine should be able to act as a vague D.N.A. test for heritage as well as age, sex, diet, general health, etc.
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:27 PM   #846
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
Remember that I am not trying to depict the characters as they are "now", but after the Living Tribunal basically resets Earth-616 and several related timelines (hence the use of "reboot" in the thread title).
I did indeed remember that (well, forgot the Living Tribunal part =P). I was pointing out that Wolverine could lose a limb contrary to the read up Under Injury Tolerance: Unbreakable Skeleton. While I cited something from "only" 18-19 years ago instead of further back, it merely indicates what Wolverine could not do the whole time... unless of course earlier on when he is normally assumed to be less powerful, he actually was unable to lose a limb in such a situation.

If prior authorial intent matters, please let me know (and if you already stated so, my apologies for making you repeat yourself). To give you an idea of how relevant that is... if you decide that Wolverine should "function" as he was intended to in his original appearance, he gets a major costume change: not the design or the color, but the fact that his claws were originally intended to be built-in weapons of his costume! Of course, prior to the Fatal Attractions story line (the 1993 X-book crossover event), Wolverine's claws were assumed by readers (and as far as I know, intended by the powers-that-be) to be metal implants. Your write up makes mention of this... and since I am editing this before running off, I can't remember if the actual Advantage treats them as bone-coated Adamantium or pure Adamantium. >_< Still, hopefully you can see why I am getting confused again.

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Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
That said, the entry I have for Wolverine states that while his bones are unbreakable, his joints are still subject to dislocation (and possible removal). Mind, I'm not sure if IT:Unbreakable Bones [5] is a mechanical fit for that, even though it's a good thematic fit.
We are adapting the Marvel Universe to GURPS, yes? Much like when adapting the DC Universe to GURPS, when adapting older versions of Superman we wouldn't bring back third edition's "Invulnerability: Any Kinetic Damage [300]" Advantage, but would select DR appropriate to make him functionally invulnerable for the campaign setting, even if the source material referred to him as being "invulnerable".

Comic books are quite given to hyperbole; does Wolverine have certain Skills as high as you're allowing for the setting, and higher than anyone else so that he can be "the best [he] is at what [he] do[es]"? Similarly I assume "unbreakable" to be an exaggeration, though one you wouldn't realize easily unless you're a scientific type of the appropriate stripe or are an established superhero who regularly meets such fantastic forces that the "exceptions" to the rule go from "once in several lifetimes" to "rare occurrences" (like an average of once every few years).

Ultimately this is your baby, and I am just providing feedback. You want Wolverine to be 5'2"? He's 5'2". Though as he's been 5'3" since I started reading the books in 1990 I still wonder if that isn't a legitimate typo, so perhaps I should have cited Jean Grey's height instead. ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrock1031 View Post
As for the claws, they're "Cutting/Impaling Striker (Armor Divisor: Infinite; Switchable)", with "Modified ST-Based Damage (Armor Divisor: Infinite; Accessibility: Only With Strikers)", doing about 2d+1 (inf) cut/imp per hit.
Where do I find "Armor Divisor: Infinite". I couldn't find it in GURPS Powers, but I only had time for a quick look. If it is not in a book I own... then a really simple summary of it would be good. ^^'
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:29 PM   #847
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
The weight disadvantages limit HT, so they are specifically about fat and presumed negative health aspects thereof.
Relevance to Wolverine, who has none of those Disadvantages, and to my comment that was using real world terminology (hence the lack of capitalization)?
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Old 10-09-2014, 05:17 PM   #848
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
I did indeed remember that (well, forgot the Living Tribunal part =P). I was pointing out that Wolverine could lose a limb contrary to the read up Under Injury Tolerance: Unbreakable Skeleton. While I cited something from "only" 18-19 years ago instead of further back, it merely indicates what Wolverine could not do the whole time... unless of course earlier on when he is normally assumed to be less powerful, he actually was unable to lose a limb in such a situation.
Well, the Tribunal part is all part of the "backstory" of the Reboot. All will be made clear as mud if/when I get around to posting the Watcher. ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
If prior authorial intent matters, please let me know (and if you already stated so, my apologies for making you repeat yourself). To give you an idea of how relevant that is... if you decide that Wolverine should "function" as he was intended to in his original appearance, he gets a major costume change: not the design or the color, but the fact that his claws were originally intended to be built-in weapons of his costume! Of course, prior to the Fatal Attractions story line (the 1993 X-book crossover event), Wolverine's claws were assumed by readers (and as far as I know, intended by the powers-that-be) to be metal implants. Your write up makes mention of this... and since I am editing this before running off, I can't remember if the actual Advantage treats them as bone-coated Adamantium or pure Adamantium. >_< Still, hopefully you can see why I am getting confused again.
Yeah, I'm not actually sure whether I'd be having the blades be natural or fully artificial. I like the visuals of the wholly artificial blades, but I also liked the stories in the early '90s after Magneto ripped the adamantium out of his body and he discovered the claws were natural. Ultimately, I left it as vague as his life before the adamantium bonding process.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
We are adapting the Marvel Universe to GURPS, yes? Much like when adapting the DC Universe to GURPS, when adapting older versions of Superman we wouldn't bring back third edition's "Invulnerability: Any Kinetic Damage [300]" Advantage, but would select DR appropriate to make him functionally invulnerable for the campaign setting, even if the source material referred to him as being "invulnerable".

Comic books are quite given to hyperbole; does Wolverine have certain Skills as high as you're allowing for the setting, and higher than anyone else so that he can be "the best [he] is at what [he] do[es]"? Similarly I assume "unbreakable" to be an exaggeration, though one you wouldn't realize easily unless you're a scientific type of the appropriate stripe or are an established superhero who regularly meets such fantastic forces that the "exceptions" to the rule go from "once in several lifetimes" to "rare occurrences" (like an average of once every few years).

Ultimately this is your baby, and I am just providing feedback. You want Wolverine to be 5'2"? He's 5'2". Though as he's been 5'3" since I started reading the books in 1990 I still wonder if that isn't a legitimate typo, so perhaps I should have cited Jean Grey's height instead. ;)
Wolvie's a braggart anyway, especially in the '70s and '80s under Claremont. :)

And I'm sure many people might find my Wolvie underpowered: low damage (even if it ignores DR), a brawler prone to berserking and not the ninja he's been portrayed as since he regained his memory, and only regenerating 2 HP per minute rather than per second (or gods, I've seen builds with him regenerating 30 HP/second).

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
Where do I find "Armor Divisor: Infinite". I couldn't find it in GURPS Powers, but I only had time for a quick look. If it is not in a book I own... then a really simple summary of it would be good. ^^'
It's technically "Cosmic: Irresistible Attack, +300%", which is the same as giving it an infinite armor divisor. I believe it was covered in Powers, but definitely shows up in Power-Ups 4: Enhancements.
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The GURPS Marvel Universe Reboot Project A-G, H-R, and S-Z, and its not-a-wiki-really web adaptation.
Ranoc, a Muskets-and-Magery Renaissance Fantasy Setting
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Old 10-09-2014, 06:07 PM   #849
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Relevance to Wolverine, who has none of those Disadvantages, and to my comment that was using real world terminology (hence the lack of capitalization)?
Real world obesity has to do with body fat percentage, not absolute mass.
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:39 PM   #850
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Default Re: [Supers] GURPS Unofficial Handbook to the Marvel Universe, Reboot Edition

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Originally Posted by Otaku View Post
As you might have guessed, this section is a bit technical for my current level of understanding. I mean, I am having trouble with Injury Tolerance: Unbreakable Bones. It seems tailor made for Wolverine, but ignores that canonically Wolverine can permanently lose a limb.
Frankly I would ignore that. No superhero can be around as long as Wolverine and pass through the hands of that many different writers without the occasional inconsistency.
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