RPM[MH]- RPM, charms, and weapons

[PK]

Originally Posted by starslayer

Ah? I thought you still needed enough weight to cover yourself due to the 'treat yourself as the subject' bit.

The fireball (etc.) isn't making a physical change in you, however. So no need to pay for subject weight.

So what about my 'doom bullet' and 'aisoft of hurt' spells on the first page, are they correct or no, as in both cases they do have a target in the firearm, but they still have a skill to hit with?

A charmed bullet (which does count as being "broken" when fired, sure) would use the tripled damage costs and ignore subject weight, since the subject can dodge, it is affected by DR, etc.

EDIT: But, to be clear, there's no way I'd allow a bullet to do dozens of dice of damage as a Lesser effect. As a GM, I'd say that a pistol could do at most as much damage as a low-end rifle, a rifle as much as a big-game-hunting rifle, etc., as a Lesser effect. So I'd let a pistol go up to about 5d or 6d damage, a normal rifle go up to 12d or 13d damage, etc., but any more than that would have to be a Greater effect. (And as always, this is a GM call. If your GM feels differently, he is correct.)

Also I remember it being mentioned somewhere the cost to alter the base projectile for a 'ball in hand' spell (to increase range, add RoF, or make it guided), but I can't remember what it was- +1/10%?

I'd have no problem letting the range be equal to that of the bullet "for free," since that's what's delivering the damage. To make it guided, add a Lesser Control Matter effect.

[PK]

All good points by mlangsdorf:

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

You can hand charms to other people, so the group's Commando can fire your Sniper-Bullet-of-Doom with Gun!-18 using a sniper rifle, instead of your Witch using Pistol-13 and a Acc2 hand gun.

And, just as important, it allows you to coordinate with friendly NPCs, set traps, etc. If one witch has a conditional spell, "Create a gate to our holding cell at home base when I say, 'Brisco County,'" and another has that same spell bound to a pendant, the second witch has a lot more versatility. He can set the pendant up where the bad guy might step on it -- hey, look at that! A crossroads hole just appeared underneath said bad guy! Or he could give it to another member of the team, or even an NPC who seems trustworthy, as part of some grand scheme (or just to get 'em to safety).

You can use a Charm Kit to get +1 or +2 on the roll, which is worth 30-40 energy points at high skill levels.

The actual energy bonus will depend on how much risk you're willing to take. (MH4 will have clear, simple rules for this, to support the included "magician" template, who relies heavily on charms.) But yes, it can be substantial. At effective skill 11, a +2 charm kit only gives +1 energy assuming minimal risk . . . but at effective skill 16, that same kit gives effectively +13 energy at the same minimal risk, and if the caster is willing to take even a tiny risk, it jumps to +27, +54, or even +81 energy very quickly.

And one aspect that hasn't been touched on:

You can create a "reverse charm" as a detection or protection effect that breaks if the spell has a certain effect. (This is the third bullet on p. 38.) For a good example, see the vignette in MH1, Ch. 5 -- Brad has a charm that he activated ahead of time to tell him if any vampires sensed the group's presence. The duration begin immediately, so he had to give it enough time for the team to get into position, but because he made it a conditional effect, he can let it run on its own as a continuing effect (without requiring him to pay attention to some new sense) . . . and because he made it a charm, he's able to know immediately when they've been compromised.

[starslayer]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

The fireball (etc.) isn't making a physical change in you, however. So no need to pay for subject weight.


A charmed bullet (which does count as being "broken" when fired, sure) would use the tripled damage costs and ignore subject weight, since the subject can dodge, it is affected by DR, etc.

EDIT: But, to be clear, there's no way I'd allow a bullet to do dozens of dice of damage as a Lesser effect. As a GM, I'd say that a pistol could do at most as much damage as a low-end rifle, a rifle as much as a big-game-hunting rifle, etc., as a Lesser effect. So I'd let a pistol go up to about 5d or 6d damage, a normal rifle go up to 12d or 13d damage, etc., but any more than that would have to be a Greater effect. (And as always, this is a GM call. If your GM feels differently, he is correct.)


I'd have no problem letting the range be equal to that of the bullet "for free," since that's what's delivering the damage. To make it guided, add a Lesser Control Matter effect.

We actually alternate off GMing and both have RPM witches, so anything he lets me get away with he will be doing with his own witch at some point in the future- but getting to jump up to the next category (pistol->rifle, rifle->large rifle; and I am sure it will come up large rifle->cannon) of damage as a lesser effect seems fair. What about the concept of enchanting the pistol/airsoft gun itself instead of the bullet (or a whole magazine rather then an individual bullet) is that also a valid way to do it?

Edit: I am really hoping you get the go ahead to do the RPM only book you mentioned in another threat related to RPM magic.

[mlangsdorf]

If you enchant the gun, I'd rule that as adding an Advantage (basically, a linked Innate Attack) to the gun itself. Of course, this is going to be a lot more expensive, but it's much better use of limited resources (conditional spells) for a multishot weapon.

So a mage can either expend 6 charm slots to fully load his backup pistol with charmed bullets, or he can use 0 charm slots for a duration spell that adds a 2d or so innate attack to the gun.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

All good points by mlangsdorf:


And, just as important, it allows you to coordinate with friendly NPCs, set traps, etc. If one witch has a conditional spell, "Create a gate to our holding cell at home base when I say, 'Brisco County,'" and another has that same spell bound to a pendant, the second witch has a lot more versatility. He can set the pendant up where the bad guy might step on it -- hey, look at that! A crossroads hole just appeared underneath said bad guy! Or he could give it to another member of the team, or even an NPC who seems trustworthy, as part of some grand scheme (or just to get 'em to safety).

I am seeing using the sniper and portal effects together for an interesting way to suprise an enemy. You might be able to fake a portal gun.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

If you enchant the gun, I'd rule that as adding an Advantage (basically, a linked Innate Attack) to the gun itself. Of course, this is going to be a lot more expensive, but it's much better use of limited resources (conditional spells) for a multishot weapon.

So a mage can either expend 6 charm slots to fully load his backup pistol with charmed bullets, or he can use 0 charm slots for a duration spell that adds a 2d or so innate attack to the gun.

Group target and boost everyones guns...

[Kalzazz]

Well, I figured the 'bullet of 67d' was a lesser effect since Tactical Shooting says people expect bullets to be instant death / knockdown, even trained soldiers can think so. Thus, seeing a bullet atomize someone in a single blow should be coincidental

[Anaraxes]

Even if you think people believe one bullet kills instantly, that wouldn't be "atomizing" someone with 67D damage. It would be a better excuse for an effect like Afflict (Heart Attack). Also, the same sort of Hollywood belief includes the "fact" that nearly any sort of concealment is cover proof against bullets -- car doors, for example, or 55 gallon drums -- so the high penetration would also be unbelievable.

[starslayer]

Well remember bullet of 67d is not an atomizing round because it is still piercing and thus subject to overpenetration/blowthrough, so it's an 'ignore cover, armor, and reduce target to -HT damage' round.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by starslayer

Well remember bullet of 67d is not an atomizing round because it is still piercing and thus subject to overpenetration/blowthrough, so it's an 'ignore cover, armor, and reduce target to -HT damage' round.

No blowthrough in 4e