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Old 06-07-2021, 09:11 PM   #71
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

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Originally Posted by StevenH View Post
For the list of parameters, I am mostly with EricTheRed, with the exception that I would like the alchemist to be available as a tradesman. It's likely the only "reliable" magic we will have access to, given the realities of spell-learning and spell-casting.
Good news bad news if you will...

Prices for many of the potions are relatively HIGH. GURPS treats a TL 3 monthly income as being rated between a low and high, but somewhere in the vicinity of $700 per month. Struggling income is deemed to be half that. If a struggling worker makes 1 silver penny per day, then a potion that takes 14 months income in GURPS, is going to have an equivalent value of 14 month's pay for a struggling worker. In this case - struggling pay is about 24 silver pennies per month. That places the price at 14 x 24 silver pennies in the system for tracking crops and such into a sharper focus. No peasant can afford to buy something that takes up ALL of their production for a year and 2 months - just to buy a single potion. Credit was not much of a thing back then. ;)

About the only way to make Alchemists work in game terms, is to have them get paid about 4x as much income as unskilled labor, and have the local Lord "bond them" to his household. The Lord generally pays the bonded craftsman some 25% of the wages in outright cash, but supplies everything else in "kind" (sitting at his table every meal, providing him with clothing, and a place to sleep etc). In this case too, the lord will be required to pay for the cost of materials. Now, for instance, a potion of Bird Control takes two weeks to make, has a given material cost (supplied by the lord) and the Alchemist tries to make it. He fails the first time around, so he tries yet agaon, this time he succeeds. Total cost to the Lord is two x material cost and 1/13th the salary cost per annum of the Alchemist.

On the whole - I think we can leave it to the person's discretion whether he wants to "hire" the alchemist for his own personal staff. So while EricTheRed would prefer not to, he simply doesn't pay to have the alchemist on his manor and proceeds as he sees fit. You on the other hand, can have the Alchemist, and see if you can make it worth the while overall.
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Old 06-08-2021, 11:52 PM   #72
StevenH
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

Is it also safe to assume that we won't be using "The Least of Spells"? That is, magic castable by those without any magery at all? Folk magic, if you will.



If that's the case, then I would at least like to suggest that they have a Magery 0 prereq. None of them are world-shattering, but they are mostly "quality of life" spells, and several of them are exceptionally useful (especially if you add in the ones from the Forum).



"Guide Smoke" kept occurring to me last week while camping...every 10 minutes the campfire smoke seemed to want to target me, and that virtual chimney would have been a fabulous idea....
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Old 06-09-2021, 10:13 AM   #73
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

I think that the GURPS 4e Magic spell list contains many spells which would be powerful in this setting, but don't make thematic sense or are over-powered (like Earth to Stone (Metal)). So my version of this setting just uses GURPS Classic Magic whose spell list is more oriented towards 'generic '80s fantasy.'

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Is it also safe to assume that we won't be using "The Least of Spells"? That is, magic castable by those without any magery at all? Folk magic, if you will.
I don't understand, is this an optional rule somewhere? In Normal Mana nobody can cast spells without Magery 0, in High or Very High mana they can cast those which don't require Magery 1+.

My posts above focus on Magery 0 spells with few prerequisites.
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Last edited by Polydamas; 06-09-2021 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 06-09-2021, 12:43 PM   #74
hal
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

Show of hands time, and special requests time...

How many people here want a "Village" to oversee at this point in time?

Next question...

How big of an acreage do you want for your village?

So, if we have say, three people who openly participate in this, and maybe one more privately participating - I'd need to generate 4 manors, for village censuses for your own private use.

If you are involved in running a manor, then you will need to decide your current age for your character, along with your marital status, and whether or not you have children within your family etc.

Each of you will get your very own REEVE named NPC who will advise you on the current status of your Fief and events that are ongoing. For instance, it could come to pass that of the 56 families you have available on your manor, some 5 craftsmen families are exempt from harvest duties, leaving you with 51 families involved in the harvest. Rolling against their Family skill, I get a crit failure during harvest for two of them. That implies something bad, so I might suggest that one of your workers had a sythe accident that lays open someone's leg and potentially cripples the poor guy/gal. For the other issue, someone accidentally ruins 3 bushels of grain.

In other instances, as I alluded to in another thread, one could use the Rain spell that can cause the rain during harvest time, to NOT fall. The problem with that however, is that the spell only lasts for one hour. To be truly effective, you would need to be able to delay the weather for the time it takes to harvest the grains. Normally, it takes five people to reap and bind 2 acres of land per day. If you have 50 people trying to harvest the fields, that means that you can reap and bind 20 acres of land per day. If children are used to help, their labor can be included if they are over the age of 12. Each child then COULD be deemed to be worth 1/2 day's labor. Here, due to GURPS treating anyone aged 15+ as having essentially adult stats, I will do the same and treat anyone aged 15+ as giving a full day's adult labor.

In general, Labor pool for all of the manor (including labor that can be used for things OTHER than what the lord needs or the familiy needs for their immediate holdings) is determined as 500 days per family IF there are two adults involved (ie husband wife) etc. Presumably, then, each adult can give up to 250 work days overall.
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Old 06-09-2021, 12:45 PM   #75
hal
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
I think that the GURPS 4e Magic spell list contains many spells which would be powerful in this setting, but don't make thematic sense or are over-powered (like Earth to Stone (Metal)). So my version of this setting just uses GURPS Classic Magic whose spell list is more oriented towards 'generic '80s fantasy.'


I don't understand, is this an optional rule somewhere? In Normal Mana nobody can cast spells without Magery 0, in High or Very High mana they can cast those which don't require Magery 1+.

My posts above focus on Magery 0 spells with few prerequisites.
One of the reasons I wrote my app to generate mageborn's magery level such that it can be tweaked is this:

Old style pre-magery 0 mageborn means that every single mageborn you get under the old rules, was automatically capable of at least magery 1 spells. Post Magery 0 mageborn means that about 85 to 90 some percent of your mageborn will be only able to cast spells that do not require magery 1+ There aren't a whole lot of those spells available!

If anyone wants a sample run sent to them privately, I can send it to you either directly via email, or via private messages.
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Old 06-09-2021, 12:52 PM   #76
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
How many people here want a "Village" to oversee at this point in time?
count me in!


Quote:
How big of an acreage do you want for your village?
That's up to us? I suppose it is. What size range are you looking at? And why are we going for acreage instead of head count?


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If you are involved in running a manor, then you will need to decide your current age for your character, along with your marital status, and whether or not you have children within your family etc.
We're running this part as well... hmm. I'm not enthused, but roll me up a family the same way you would any other NPC. You have a family generation method, right?
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Old 06-09-2021, 01:08 PM   #77
hal
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

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count me in!
Counted.


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That's up to us? I suppose it is. What size range are you looking at? And why are we going for acreage instead of head count?
Head count and Acres are intermixed. If you are willing to take what I give you, that is fine. If you want more acreage, that in turn means more headcount as it were. If you have more acreage, that means too, that your Reeve will be sending more of your production to your Liege lord. A larger manor will also mean you have to have more "Military" individuals ready to go to war if called upon. It likely won't be an issue in this case, but the capacity has to be present.

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
We're running this part as well... hmm. I'm not enthused, but roll me up a family the same way you would any other NPC. You have a family generation method, right?
I can easily generate a family. Some people LIKE to be able to detail things.

If you want to see what a really interesting way to generate family data can be like, try this link to a free PDF. It is used by people who enjoy HARNWORLD, and is the basis for the stuff I've been doing for determining ages and probable death dates for these NPCs.

Nutshell description: Roll 1d1000 for various aspects. Start with the Woman's age. Her husband will likely be Older than she. Then determine at what age her firstborn child will be born. Each subsequent child born will be staged at intervals that are randomly determined. Each Child's lifespan will also be generated. So, if for instance, you decided your "Knight" is not married, then no wife, no children. If you decide your Knight is Married, then he's got a wife etc. If you picked your age as 32. I'd be able to determine your wife's actual age, not on a random table roll, but by use of the rules given for determining the husband's age as being wife's age plus a die roll. I'd simply use the same die roll, subtract it from your age, and get your wife's age. Boom - that starts the point at which the babies are born etc.

Quite nifty. A fair number of PDF's at the HARNWORLD forums are FREE as they are labors of love by those at the forums.

https://www.lythia.com/game_aides/family-trees/

There is an adventure called the EARL'S PROGESS that you may want to try and look up from this same location. Well worth it in my opinion as something worth GURPSifying and then springing on your players if you like being a GM. If not, then perhaps point your GM towards it and see if he likes it enough to spring it on you. As it is a mystery style adventure, please don't read it if you're not going to GM it. ;)
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Old 06-10-2021, 04:42 PM   #78
StevenH
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post


I don't understand, is this an optional rule somewhere? In Normal Mana nobody can cast spells without Magery 0, in High or Very High mana they can cast those which don't require Magery 1+.

My posts above focus on Magery 0 spells with few prerequisites.
The Least of Spells are a collection of minor magic folk spells. Anyone who knows them can cast them. Most are pretty trivial, game usage wise, but are almost invariably utilitarian, just the kind of magic that we, as manor lords, really want and need. The Canon spells can be found in Magic: The Least of Spells, but there are several really good ones located in this thread here on the forums: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...ht=guide+smoke

There is also this thread: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...ghlight=spells

But as with everything GURPS, it's just a tool in the toolbox, and I was just wondering if we could use it.

As with all other spells, learning them will take time, but in many cases might be a useful labor trade off.


For those who are interested, I have collected the Cantrips from the first thread listed into a text file, for easy consumption.
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Old 06-10-2021, 04:48 PM   #79
StevenH
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
Show of hands time, and special requests time...

How many people here want a "Village" to oversee at this point in time?

Next question...

How big of an acreage do you want for your village?

So, if we have say, three people who openly participate in this, and maybe one more privately participating - I'd need to generate 4 manors, for village censuses for your own private use.

If you are involved in running a manor, then you will need to decide your current age for your character, along with your marital status, and whether or not you have children within your family etc.

In general, Labor pool for all of the manor (including labor that can be used for things OTHER than what the lord needs or the familiy needs for their immediate holdings) is determined as 500 days per family IF there are two adults involved (ie husband wife) etc. Presumably, then, each adult can give up to 250 work days overall.

Count me in (although I think you already knew that). As for size, I'll take as large a size as I can get away with. But really, I'll take what I can get, and work with that.



High Lord of the Manor parameters: Age: 41. Married, 3 kids that survived past age 5 (we'll assume 2 died in early childhood/stillbirths).



Are the number of families on the fiefdom standardized at 56? or is there some variance? Again, I will take whatever I get.
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Old 06-18-2021, 07:58 PM   #80
StevenH
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

I've been thinking about spells and utility. Traditionally (gaming wise) spells have been aimed at adventuring, not supporting the functions of a village. Which is fine, for adventurers. Not so fine when trying to run a village that has access to mages and at least some control over which spells they are taught.

It seems that the lord of the manor (and thus village) would want his mages to be able to help the lord maximize the effectiveness of the village. Ultimately, this means taxes, but smart lords understand that happy, productive villagers pay more in taxes.

So the best use of the mages would then be to mitigate disasters, help with farming, reduce crop losses due to pests/mold/moisture, construction, and production of goods.

In the case of crop losses, pests would be best controlled by Beast Summoning: set up a box for the mage to hide in, surrounded by traps (of a type based upon what will be summoned). The mage then casts the spell, pulling in all of the pests of that type within 10 miles, where they run into the traps/nets/arrows of the waiting villagers. (The mage is in a box because the animals summoned stop when the mage is visible. The box could also simply be a tarp draped over them.)
Crop losses due to a hard rain just before harvest could be handled by the Rain spell, or by using Destroy Water, or Shape Water. The trick here is to not let the grains stay wet and get moldy.
Given the above, what other problems would a village run into? It's these kinds of things that the mages would be turned loose on, and their spell list and education should reflect this.

Thoughts?
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