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Old 06-03-2021, 06:28 PM   #61
Polydamas
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenH View Post
I'd just like to add to the notes on C&E spells....

These could actually be quite useful to act as a communications network, especially as there is no high speed travel between villages. Having at least 1 mage in each town with appropriate communication spells could end up acting like a mail/messaging service, uniting the villages and allowing them better usage of specialists (mages included). (I don't have my books handy so I am unsure of exactly which spells would be best for this.)
That is a good suggestion, but the only spell like that in GURPS Classic Magic Revised which I know is Mind-Sending. Mind-Sending has four prerequisites, so its not something most mages can learn (4 points per prerequisite to get skill 10). Some of the peasants might send someone to town to learn the price for their goods in different markets from a fancy mage though ...

One thing which strikes me is that most miraculous spells require Magery, often Magery 2 or Magery 3. There will be a lot of desire to fake these powerful spells with simple ones.

And that per p. B66, detecting magic items by sight or touch requires a Per + Magery check. Aura costs 3 FP (half an hour of highly skilled labour) per subject, Divination is difficult and likely to only be cast to find powerful mages ("mirror, mirror, on the wall, show me the most powerful mage in this barony except for ..."), and the "pick a magic item amongst mundane items" test has a high rate of false negatives. That does not suggest that our model society is better at identifying the talented than most real-world societies. It also brings up a character type: someone with unrecognized Magery who has learned a spell or two, perhaps from books, perhaps from someone who knows the spell by rote but can't cast it outside a High Mana Zone.

If I were a lord in this society, I would buy a few scrolls of Major Healing and Cure Disease for emergencies. A local mage can read them even if they don't know those spells.
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Last edited by Polydamas; 06-03-2021 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 06-04-2021, 10:37 AM   #62
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

There is one problem with focusing on GURPS Classic Magic, and that is sex and reproduction. Humans have been managing their fertility for a long time (with some temporary difficulties in the 19th and 20th centuries), and love spells and fertility potions are a significant part of real-world magical practice. For some reason, GURPS Classic Magic does not have spells covering the functions which the elixers Ceres and Eros provide. These spells are important for world-building.
  • Strike Barren (GURPS Classic Grimoire p. 14): Magery, Steal Health (Necromantic: requires Steal ST, Minor Healing), Decay
    Because of the many prerequisites and permanent duration, this would be the kind of spell which people travel to town to have cast. Analyze Magic and Divination seems to be the only ways to test whether someone is subject to it. Removing it requires Remove Curse (15 prerequisites) so getting it reversed is a bit more involved than having an IUD out.
  • Remove Fetus (GURPS Bio-Tech p. 32: requires Ease Labour, Lend Vitality, and either Apportation or Minor Healing)
    This is the kind of spell which a hedge mage might just learn, its not quite as difficult and the demand is local and urgent
  • I don't remember a fertility spell, I would probably put it under Body Control with Vigour as a prerequisite and a duration of say one hour.
  • There would probably be a Body Control spell to trigger physiological arousal: Itch is probably a prerequisite, and Larry Niven suggests that the magic item should be a sword and only affect male bearers.
  • Lets tiptoe around Ecstasy (a Mind Control spell requring Magery 2, GURPS Grimoire p. 76).

My version of this setting has the first four spells (and Ease Labour) even though they are not in GURPS Classic Magic.
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Old 06-06-2021, 08:38 AM   #63
hal
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

Hi Guys,
Sorry for the delay in posting here lately. End of month is always busy for me...

In any event, What I propose to do soon, is start to discuss parameters that will go into this exercise.

Each person will be granted a "manor" for which they are the Lord. Each of your Lords will be given a Reeve whose job it is to help oversee the day to day affairs of your manor - see that the work is done to the best of his ability to organize labor that is owed to the Lord vs overall labor that is theoretically available on the basis of using young adults, and fully adult individuals as well. If you want to utilize "ceremonial castings" each hour of ceremony will deduct 1 manhour per day per ritual.

In addition, each of the Nobles will have to pay for services such as teaching people to read, and so forth. So, my goal is this:

Get you all talking about what parameters you want to see for this exercise. For example, the Church will be nominally Christian but without the bias against magic (ie, no Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live mentality). The church will STRENOUSLY protest against the use of any spirit altering spells or spells that deprive a man of free will and a connection to God. Doesn't mean the Lord can't over rule it, but it will cause bad odor between the Church and the Lord - which, if it gets out of hand, can cause an edit to be raised against the Lord or even excommunicated.

Think hard about the legality classes of spells you're willing as Lord, to tolerate on your Manor. In other words, if you don't like certain spells to be freely available, you may want to find some way to control (hence the control rating) those spells.

There will be the potential for regional events that affect the entire kingdom, as well as local events to affect your manor only.

First thing up for debate: If we're dealing with 10 villages in theory, and each of you are going to want to know how many mageborn you have in your village - do you want to set it up as a general "pool" of mageborn, where each one is assigned to a random manor (ie if we have three of you in this, then manors 1-3 are going to be assigned to you for your control, while those with manors 4 - 10 will be known to exist, but not directly impact on your manor unless you hire their services directly.

Alternatively, we simply roll at 2% chance per person on your manor (thus, if you have an 1800 acre holding, with 90 families, plus the 1 family that is your own Noble family - that works out to about 455 people on YOUR manor. That is roughly 9 mageborn that you get a shot at.

Now, in private conversation with one individual, the question was "Can we build player characters for this" when I spoke of making these mageborn semi-player characters in capabilities. The stats will be rolled randomly, as will their magery. My idea is to make it such that each NPC will gain a total of 2 character points per year of age past 15 for use with spells and other "life skills" Necessary for the mageborn. Area knowledge will be one such skill. Cooking, housekeeping, along with general skills necessary in engaging in day to day living (hiking, rudimentary animal husbandry skills, etc) After that, one can spend points in spells left and right providing that the following is observed:

Mages require 200 hours of training to learn a new spell. This means that not only does the Mage require training time to perfect his grasp of the spell, but that a teacher must ALSO dedicate that time to teaching said student the spell. This in turn also requires that the "masters" who are teaching the apprentices, will also have to have the skill of teaching at 12.

So, give this some thought about what kinds of parameters you want to look into. Know that the Lord's income is STRICTLY based on what the manor itself produces in the way of wheat (cash crop), Barley, Rye, oats, vegetables, hay, etc. The lord will have to permit the serfs to sell their produce to either a merchant who comes to the Manor, or they have to go to the nearest town to get a higher value for their goods. General rule of thumb? Every item sold on the market gets half its value in coin. Payments in rent to the Lord are often in both coin and kind (ie, something that is worth 8 silver coins per bushel - is worth 8 silver coins in Kind when given to the Lord).

Be aware too - that prices of agricultural goods fluctuate. In times of shortages (roughly 1 year in 4) prices rise. In times of plenty, prices drop.

As for the "Freemen" within your manor...

They rarely are involved in court cases heard in your court. For that, they take their cases directly to the Hundreds Courts that handles cases for freemen. In cases between Free and nobility - that is where the court will hear the case. In cases between serfs and freemen, they CAN agree to your court in resolving the issue - or they can still demand the Hundred instead. As freemen, they are beholden to no one but the King.

Marriages and such: No one can leave the manor if they owe you service as your serf. They can't marry without your permission. If they want to live off the manor for a time, they have to enter into an agreement between you and them, for a fee that is paid annually. Be aware too, that historically, such agreements often fell by the wayside and the Lord would find that his agreed upon payment was not met. Not to worry though, you can take it out on the remaining family STILL on the Manor. You can easily force a son for example, to marry another - because that is your right.

In the end? You will decide in a broad sense, what the customs of the manor will be after you make decisions as Lord of the Village. What you decide in your life time becomes precedent that the villagers will attempt to hold your heirs to going forward.

Last but not least: each Family owes a given number of days labor for tasks necessary for the day to day running of your manor. If there is a mageborn who is part of a family or even the Head of the family, you can specify that you wish for their labor to be spell casting for a day or what have you. As Mel Brooks once said, it is good to be King. Ok, maybe not King in this case, but you're the higher authority in this experiment.

So - 2 character points per age over 12 devoted to spell casting and life skills? Do you want to track them as almost player characters with character sheets and such? Do you want to specify low mana or normal mana? Do you wish to use Pre-Magery 0 invention and require that lowest magery possible is magery 1 and highest is magery 3? Do you wish to go the route of permitting an alchemist in the game as a "Tradesman"? If so, I can easily add that "trade" to the trade's list and generate manors.

If you want to build player character Landed Knights, how many character points do you wish to use for that? If yes, I will presume that automatically (ie free of charge) each Knight would start with Status 3, and Comfortable wealth, along with Duty to Liege.

So, let's get this rolling with some discussions of where we want to go and explore.

One more thing while I'm thinking about it.

There are essentially three periods of development for GURPS MAGIC. GURPS FANTASY 1st edition was GURPS MAGIC version 1. GURPS MAGIC 2nd edition was essentially GURPS MAGIC version 2. GURPS GRIMOIRE made it verion 2.5, and GURPS MAGIC for 4e is essentially 2.5 on steroids (and thus, version 3).

If unfettered access to all spells within GURPS MAGIC for 4e is what you want to experiment with, be my guests. If you want to see what the differences are with one manor using 4e, while others use GURPS MAGIC 2e, or even simply GURPS FANTASY 1st edition, that works for me as well.

On that note, things will be a little busy again, but I will check in from time to time where we engage in discussing various things. For example? If 90% of your mageborn are magery 0 mages - that means that spell lists will be VERY limited over time. If you want to postulate that the Chruch will take over the training of any and All mageborn with magery 3, then that works as well. After all, the church does love its literate people!

So, the floor is open. Let's see what you make of this.

Hal
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Old 06-06-2021, 12:22 PM   #64
hal
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

Another thing to vote upon...

English history being what it is, has this fun little element called the Norman Invasion. From there, we see an evolution of not just social changes within England's system of governance, but also how land is treated in the eyes of the Conquerors.

One possible "switch" to consider for this world building exercise...

Land is relatively peaceful, without the recent memory of the conquest or even NO history of conquest - or a land in which the Conquest is relatively recent. Any one setting of the suggested above would have an interesting impact not just on the lives of those living in such a world, but would also suggest a new "craft" that the mageborn may excel at that mundane means would be hard pressed to compete against. For example, we find that plowing was an activity that was practiced throughout the year to the extent that worked land was defined by how much land a team of oxen or horses can plow within a given period of time. If SHAPE Earth as a spell has the same general benefit that plow teams have - then it may very well work out that the mageborn could serve in lieu of plowing teams. Someone here would have to work out the math involved (time vs energy vs spell backfires etc.) The one BENEFIT that could possibly be derived from mageborn acting in lieu of plow teams is that they can handle terrain in geometric shapes other than long thing lines as produced by a plowing team.

Another possibility too are defensive works. If a given amount or volume of "earthen works" needs to be erected, could the mageborn actively produce Motte and Bailey fortifications far more cheaply than simple manpower would suggest? One would need to look at the rules for digging in GURPS to find out just how worth the while it might be to use spells in place of unskilled muscle power for that particular task.

So, ask yourself whether or not you want to have a recent conquest of the area, old history conquest of the area, or no conquest of the area.



For those who may be interested, there is a product worth picking up for its history value, along with application to a Role playing environment:

ORBIS MUNDI 2 by Phillip McGregor

Myself, I've also picked up THE MARKET from the same author and have enjoyed reading it immensely. The nice thing is, there is a lot of meaty information in those PDFs that I find them worth utilizing in world building. Even now, I'm devouring my newest acquisition of recent that details arms and armor of the late middle ages.
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Old 06-07-2021, 10:05 AM   #65
ericthered
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

I'd prefer a recent conquest environment. It gives us narrative permission to be shaking up the status quo.


Quote:
Mages require 200 hours of training to learn a new spell. This means that not only does the Mage require training time to perfect his grasp of the spell, but that a teacher must ALSO dedicate that time to teaching said student the spell. This in turn also requires that the "masters" who are teaching the apprentices, will also have to have the skill of teaching at 12.
I'd prefer a lighter version of the teaching requirement. Apprenticeships are how much of the information in the middle ages was transferred, and requiring everyone with an apprentice to have the teaching skill feels off. That said, I have no problem requiring 400 hours or more if the teacher doesn't have the teaching skill at high enough level.



I'd also like to take this time to protest against a requirement to know a prereq at 10 or some other number. I think knowing the theory of a spell but not being any good with it makes a good deal of sense.



Quote:
So - 2 character points per age over 12 devoted to spell casting and life skills? Do you want to track them as almost player characters with character sheets and such?
I do want to track full skill lists, but actually making sheets sounds like a pain. 12 points per age over 12? that sounds very 3e, but its not a bad starting point. I would like an additional pool for "leisure skills", that just sort of happen, like area knowledge and dancing.



Quote:
First thing up for debate: If we're dealing with 10 villages in theory, and each of you are going to want to know how many mageborn you have in your village - do you want to set it up as a general "pool" of mageborn, where each one is assigned to a random manor (ie if we have three of you in this, then manors 1-3 are going to be assigned to you for your control, while those with manors 4 - 10 will be known to exist, but not directly impact on your manor unless you hire their services directly.

Alternatively, we simply roll at 2% chance per person on your manor (thus, if you have an 1800 acre holding, with 90 families, plus the 1 family that is your own Noble family - that works out to about 455 people on YOUR manor. That is roughly 9 mageborn that you get a shot at.
I prefer the 2%. Let the dice do their work. If I end up with no mages, we'll see what I can do to steal someone else's.



Quote:
Do you want to specify low mana or normal mana?
Normal Mana. Oh Please Normal Mana.

Quote:
Do you wish to use Pre-Magery 0 invention and require that lowest magery possible is magery 1 and highest is magery 3?
I'm mostly neutral about that.

Quote:
Do you wish to go the route of permitting an alchemist in the game as a "Tradesman"? If so, I can easily add that "trade" to the trade's list and generate manors.
I'd lean against that, but that's just a minor preference.


Quote:
If unfettered access to all spells within GURPS MAGIC for 4e is what you want to experiment with, be my guests. If you want to see what the differences are with one manor using 4e, while others use GURPS MAGIC 2e, or even simply GURPS FANTASY 1st edition, that works for me as well.
unfettered 4e would be the most useful to me.
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Old 06-07-2021, 11:29 AM   #66
Polydamas
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

I think that apprenticeship would use the On-The-Job Training rules (pp. B292-293).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
unfettered 4e would be the most useful to me.
The list of spells in that book was never intended to be used in one setting. Looking at GURPS Classic Magic, I see that GURPS 4e made more mechanical fixes than I remembered, but the spell list was "every spell anyone has ever proposed for GURPS" not "spells suitable for a particular kind of setting."
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Old 06-07-2021, 12:45 PM   #67
hal
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
I think that apprenticeship would use the On-The-Job Training rules (pp. B292-293).


The list of spells in that book was never intended to be used in one setting. Looking at GURPS Classic Magic, I see that GURPS 4e made more mechanical fixes than I remembered, but the spell list was "every spell anyone has ever proposed for GURPS" not "spells suitable for a particular kind of setting."
I can see the merits of both arguments, which is why I think that what will be a good idea is to let people bring up any spell they want from the spell lists per se - but then also explain why such a spell either truly BREAKS the TL 3 scheme of things, or can potentially break a true TL 3 scheme if and only if sufficient numbers of mageborn are present within an organized society.

If a given spell is a Magery 3 spell and would REALLY break society at a TL 3 organization level (as explained in GURPS LOW tech for 4e, then we can identify said spells as provisionally genre breaking. In addition, those GM's who permit player character mages to update their magery levels after character creation will know they'd better be prepared to explain why there aren't more "upgraded mageborn" in their campaign worlds.

One thing I liked about GURPS 3e that is missing in 4e was something that made a lot of sense to me at the time, and still does despite the philosophy behind GURPS 4e...

To wit: When a player's character starts game play as a full grown adult, any increases in attributes will come MUCH harder. It is harder for an adult to increase their "IQ", or their "ST" (although it still can be done via weight lifting, steroid use, etc). 3e's rule was that it costs DOUBLE to improve any attribute after start of play on the presumption that your adult attributes represent your body fully grown and/or mature.

In any event - as this is titled "world building" - we're not just focused on the mechanical aspects per se, but also on the world building repercussions as well.

See my next post on some potential issues for NPC "growth" as they grow older (and it is't just the issue of aging per se).
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Old 06-07-2021, 12:54 PM   #68
ericthered
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
I think that apprenticeship would use the On-The-Job Training rules (pp. B292-293).
which interacts with the 2 points per year in a funny fashion... but that's a great reference. Some mages might spend an additional hour or two in the evening on training as well, and even without teaching, that should be more effective.


Quote:
The list of spells in that book was never intended to be used in one setting. Looking at GURPS Classic Magic, I see that GURPS 4e made more mechanical fixes than I remembered, but the spell list was "every spell anyone has ever proposed for GURPS" not "spells suitable for a particular kind of setting."
I agree. But I thought the point here was to see what magic spells could be supported. The setting is going to do its own pruning, I think. So I want to take as wide a selection of spells as possible so that we can see them all get pruned.
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Old 06-07-2021, 01:17 PM   #69
hal
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

here is a trial run of npc generation using a population of mageborn size 51.

Each "Name" was randomly picked from a list of English names that I have access to (purchased from DriveThruRPG.com) where it is a single text file containing one name per line. Each name has one of three prefixes:

F: (for female names)
M: (for Male Names)
S: (for surnames)

This app was designed for those who might want to use it, to develop their naming conventions and take it from there


Each attribute is rolled as 2d6/2 rounded up +7 (generating a range between 8 and 13)

Magery is randomly assigned based on the ratio of population within the mageborn who will have a chance of Magery 0, Magery 1, Magery 2, and Magery 3. This assumes a 10:1 ratio of lower magery to the next higher magery. Because it is Random, it is possible to get a Magery 3 result in someone despite there only being some 51 mageborn in the trial population size. Please note that the App does permit you to change your parameters during program run, where you can use a 7:1 ratio because 7 is more mystical. You could select 9:1 because 9 is more mystical being thrice three. You get the drift. You're not stuck exploring 10:1 as given in GURPS FANTASY 1st edition.

Social Status was developed from both HARN MANOR and from a reference book on Tax rolls from the time period of about 1200 AD from Southern England.

Current Age is assigned via a PDF table called FAMILY TREES that I picked up from HARN FORUMS. Age upon Death uses the same table. I added the "decimal concept" so that the birth date can be narrowed down to Month/Day/Hour/Seconds if you so desired. Same with the moment of death for the NPC.

Social Status was developed from both HARN MANOR and from a reference book on Tax rolls from the time period of about 1200 AD from Southern England.

The last column is simply the integer value of (Age-11)*2. This is how many character points that can in theory be dropped into spells and/or skills associated with spell casters. The sample below does not include names...

Code:
ID                ST     DX      IQ      HT    Mage   Status  Gender      Age   Death  Points
 1		  9	 12	 11	  9	  0	Serf	Male	 27.809	 67.194	33
 2		 13	  9	  9	 10	  0	Serf	Female	  2.34	 56.78	 0
 3		 11	  9	 12	 12	  1	Serf	Female	 30.293	 68.13	38
 4		  9	 11	  9	  8	  0	Serf	Male	 39.908	 82.532	57
 5		 10	 11	 10	 10	  0	Serf	Female	 48.045	 77.596	74
 6		 10	  8	 10	 12	  0	Serf	Male	 21.742	 63.866	21
 7		 10	  9	  9	 10	  0	Serf	Female	 18.378	 70.066	14
 8		  9	  9	 10	  8	  0	Serf	Female	  4.212	 47.973	 0
 9		 10	  8	 11	 10	  0	Serf	Female	 55.852	 74.66	89
10		 12	 12	 10	 10	  0	Serf	Female	 26.907	 52.544	31
11		 12	 10	 10	 12	  0	Serf	Female	 59.69	 68.818	97
12		  9	  9	  8	 11	  0	Freeman	Male	 16.963	 36.408	11
13		  8	 11	 11	 11	  0	Serf	Female	 47.288	 66.437	72
14		  8	 11	 10	 10	  2	Serf	Male	 37.95	 43.736	53
15		 10	 13	  8	 10	  0	Serf	Male	 24.515	 49.886	27
16		 12	 10	 10	 11	  0	Freeman	Male	 56.031	 66.16	90
17		 10	 10	 12	  9	  0	Serf	Female	  1.305	 52.266	 0
18		 11	 12	 11	  8	  0	Serf	Female	 29.779	 62.565	37
19		 11	  8	 10	 11	  1	Serf	Female	 34.078	 72.181	46
20		  8	 11	 11	 11	  0	Serf	Female	 43.694	 76.561	65
21		 11	  9	 10	 11	  0	Serf	Female	 10.504	 42.679	 0
22		 13	  9	 11	 11	  0	Serf	Male	 24.191	 59.294	26
23		 10	 10	 10	  9	  0	Serf	Male	 32.807	 55.914	43
24		  8	  9	  9	 12	  0	Serf	Female	 63.059	 80.209	104
25		 11	 12	 11	  8	  0	Serf	Male	 48.721	 53.7	75
26		 11	 11	  8	  9	  0	Serf	Male	 60.845	 65.657	99
27		 10	 11	 11	 12	  0	Serf	Female	  1.803	 56.636	 0
28		 11	 11	 11	  9	  0	Serf	Female	 30.149	 67.038	38
29		  9	 10	 12	  9	  0	Serf	Male	 38.55	 74.337	55
30		 12	  9	 11	 12	  0	Serf	Male	 44.85	 47.106	67
31		  9	  9	 11	 11	  0	Serf	Male	 26.619	 59.572	31
32		  8	 10	 11	  8	  0	Serf	Male	 11.717	 29.213	 0
33		 11	 11	 10	  9	  1	Serf	Male	 43.358	 64.166	64
34		  9	 10	 11	 11	  0	Serf	Female	 35.679	 67.317	49
35		  9	 11	 11	 10	  0	Serf	Male	 15.461	 59.294	8
36		 10	 10	 10	  9	  0	Serf	Male	 32.807	 55.914	43
37		 10	  9	  9	 12	  0	Serf	Female	 63.059	 80.445	104
38		  9	 10	 12	 10	  0	Serf	Female	 28.456	 64.345	34
39		 10	  9	 10	 11	  0	Serf	Male	 36.858	 57.537	51
40		 11	 12	  8	 12	  0	Serf	Male	 10.417	 73.302	 0
41		  9	 11	 10	 11	  0	Serf	Female	 43.815	 79.631	65
42		 11	 10	 12	 11	  0	Serf	Female	 22.776	 62.687	23
43		  8	 10	 10	  9	  0	Serf	Female	 34.199	 71.089	46
44		  8	  9	 11	 11	  0	Crafts	Male	 42.601	 82.388	63
45		 11	 11	 13	  9	  0	Serf	Male	 29.9	 75.238	37
46		  9	 10	 13	 12	  0	Serf	Male	  6.118	 21.028	 0
47		  8	  8	  9	 10	  0	Serf	Male	 16.541	 75.96	11
48		 10	 12	 12	 11	  0	Freeman	Male	 45.473	 46.794	68
49		 12	  9	 10	 12	  0	Serf	Female	  6.939	 27.456	 0
50		 11	 10	  9	 12	  0	Serf	Female	 18.968	 44.58	15
51		  9	 11	 11	  9	  0	Crafts	Female	  5.46	 57.537	 0
Now you can see one problem that pops up right immediately. Two characters, aged 82, start with 104 points for spells due to their age. As we grow older, we learn less quickly, and GURPS as written isn't really intended to follow the life cycle of a given character with constant upgrading.

As such, I would suggest the following rule concept:

2 points per year 12+ on up to 30. From there, it becomes 1 point. If NPC mageborn have children for example, there will be times where spell casting during pregnancy might not be a wise option.

Fine tuning, fiddling here, or there, makes sense. One thing that came from this thread that I will put into my bag of tricks is this:

If a teacher does not have the skill to teach or has a skill level less than 12, then training by said teacher requires twice as long. Since spells require either a book or a teacher, a poor teacher can be comparable to learning by yourself with no teacher.
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Old 06-07-2021, 05:07 PM   #70
StevenH
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

For the list of parameters, I am mostly with EricTheRed, with the exception that I would like the alchemist to be available as a tradesman. It's likely the only "reliable" magic we will have access to, given the realities of spell-learning and spell-casting.

The spells available to us will be the interesting bit. Even if every single spell in Magic 4e was theoretically available, realistically most won't be. Either not enough Magery, or not enough time, or not enough IQ to effectively learn it.

And then there is the concept of "The lord of the manor will only let me learn spells he thinks are cost effective". A lot of the spells in the list are...interesting...but not of any real economic value. When you are losing out of weeks of labor from someone, you want it to be worth it. So the spells that the mages will be "aiming" for have to have some kind of economic return. There just isn't enough of a surplus population that isn't busy trying to enable the survival of the manor and its surroundings.

So one thing I think we will need to do is go through the lists and find out what the "real world value" of the spell would be. Would it increase harvests? Decrease insect damage to crops? Make things grow faster? Make sheep grow more wool or cotton grow more boles (or whatever the fluffs of cotton are called)? If there is a chance of external enemies, that would open up the damaging spells, making them potentially "useful". Making and Breaking spells are likely "useful". As would the spell "Extinguish Fire", if only because thatch roofs can be flammable.
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