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Old 05-17-2021, 08:26 AM   #51
ericthered
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

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Originally Posted by hal View Post
Just sent out a copy of my "Prototype" mageborn generator. I'm happy with it for now in that it generates everything that I wanted to including age, magery value, four stats ranged 8 to 13, along with...

Sent out? how do I get a copy?
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Old 05-17-2021, 05:07 PM   #52
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Sent out? how do I get a copy?
The only way I could send it was via dropbox. I took a short break from coding, but with luck, I may be able to finish some niggling little details soon.

I figured that if I'm going to write this code, I might as well make it more generally useful. Originally, the code was set for 10:1 ratios only. Then I thought "Can I write code that will let the user select a ratio from 3:1 to 4:1 on up to 10:1 (plus 12:1 and 20:1) and still have it properly generate random NPCs? I think I can actually, so that's one niggling detail I want to fix. The next detail that needs to be completed is the ability to export data to either a Txt file or a CSV file. The only difference between the two (as they are both essentially text files) is that I have to separate each "item" by a comma instead of spacing as I would in a normal readable Text file.



Those are the two things that i really want done before I release it to you directly via Drop box if you want it. The only other thing I want to do to jazz things up is add a routine that lets the program read a single file formatted such that it has First Names and Surnames separated out by gender. I've done the work to create the datafile of names for English names. 3526 Male English Names, 2760 Female English Names, and 7839 English Surnames. My plan/goal is to place a F: prefix on the Female Names, M: for the Male names, and S: for the Surnames. I doubt I can include the data files due to potential copyright issues (although I believe you can't copyright names) - I don't want to find out the hard way that someone will sue my buttocks off because they think they can. ;)

That Code used to generate the random NPC mageborn can just as easily be used to generate NPC's via the details in GURPS 3e revised for the basic combat skill levels, etc.

I am HALF tempted to find out who wrote the GURPS HISTORICAL FOLKS, and ask permission to try and create an NPC GURPS HISTORICAL FOLKS random generator. Toss in cultural disadvantages like perhaps fear of strangers, reluctant killer, etc - and maybe someone will find a use for it to generate an NPC on the spot, saving them time and effort.

Who kows. ;)

I will contact you directly once I know what I'm doing. If you want to join a mini-distribution email list for what I'm doing, let me know by sending me an email asking to be added, and I'll add you to the private communications tha is going on.

I really hope to set this thing in final motion before too long. I'd like to see how people spend their coins. Since all of the mageborn will be randomly generated separate from the 10 Villages, you even get to place which mageborn on which Village. If you want to spend them by placing the bulk of them in 3 villages, be my guest.

Oh, and one more thing. During my random testing, I did get a Magery 2 individual who was 2 years of age, and a death date at age 4.

THAT is going to gum up some people's calculations I'm sure!

Last edited by hal; 05-17-2021 at 05:08 PM. Reason: misspelled comma.
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Old 05-19-2021, 03:04 PM   #53
hal
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

For those who are interested in the Coding or want to try and build an excel spreadsheet that does this:

Code:
Public Function GetMagebornPermutations(ByVal Ratio As Integer, _
                                                ByVal LowestMagery As Integer, _
                                                ByVal HighestMagery As Integer)
        Dim Totals As Integer = 0
        Dim Exponentials As Integer = 0
        Exponentials = HighestMagery - LowestMagery + 1

        Dim X As Integer
        For X = (Exponentials - 1) To 0 Step -1
            Totals = Totals + Ratio ^ Exponentials

        Next
        GetMagebornPermutations = Totals
    End Function
Explanation: Let's say you wanted to try out the idea of Magery is 10 times more prevelant in the lowest magery level to the next highest. In this case, we're looking at a ratio value of 10. Let's also assume that we're dealing with Magery 1 to Magery 3 for this instance.

When we do a loop, we'll essentially have the following variables:

Highest Magery = 3
Lowest Magery = 1
Exponentials = 3 - 1 + 1 or 3 (highest Magery - Lowest Magery) +1
Ratio = 10

Thus, when we enter into the For/Next loop, we're going to start at 3-1 or 2, and work from 2 to 1 to 0 (ie from 2 to 0, step -1)

So:

10^2 + 10^1 + 10^0 = 100 + 10 + 1 or 111.

Let's try that with a different ratio of 7:1 (seven being a mystical number) and we want to try for Magery 0 being the lowest possible in your game world, 4 being the highest.

We'll call this function with (7,0,4)

Eponentials = 4-0+1 or 5 (magery 0, 1, 2, 3, and 5 gives us five possible populations.

With the loop, we have:

7^ 4 + 7^ 3, + 7^2 + 7^1 + 7^0 = 2401 + 343 + 47 + 7 + 1 or 2799 mageborn if the ratio were 7:1 with Mageries 0 to 4.

Now for the fun part. The next bit of code that I have to do will go through essentially that same loop. I have to generate a random number from 1 to 2799 (for example, the 7:1 ratio using Magery 0 to Magery 4). Then I have to ask:

Is the number less than or equal to 7^4. If yes, Magery = 0 If no then:
Is the number less than or equal to 7^4+7^3. If yes, magery =1 else...
Is the number less than or equal to 7^4+7^3+7^2. If yes, Magery =2 else
Is the number less than or equal to 7^4+7^3+7^2+7^1. If yes, magery =3

if it doesn't meet any of those criteria, it MUST be equal to the sum of all possible mageborn and be equal to 2799 for the character to be Mageborn 4.


This will work regardless of what Ratio you use, regardless of how high Magery Goes to with one minor **delicate cough** problem...

What is the largest possible number I'd generate using this method?

If you go Magery 0 to Magery 10, with a ratio of 20:1 - the largest number that will be generated will be

20^(10-0+1) or 204,800,000,000,000 plus some odds and ends. Checking the net, it appears the largest number I can represent with a variable type "Long" with VB.NET is 9,223,372,036,854,775,807. So I should be safe even worst case scenaro.

So, once I finish coding the assignments of Magery based on that little tidbit "not wrapped in code" - I should have a working prototype of assigning various mageborn types that will not only work for what I need it for, but work for:

Ratios of 3:1 on up to 10:1 plus two more - 12:1 and 20 to one. If people want to play with ratios different than, I suppose I could set it up to ask people for them to enter in highest magery, lowest magery, then the ratio value instead of the method I did choose, but hey, I wanted to have fun too ya know. ;)
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Old 05-29-2021, 06:01 AM   #54
hal
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

Hi All,
Just a general update...

Coding the random NPC mageborn looks to be almost done. The basic code works as best as I can tell, although if anyone would like to QA it for me (Quality Assurance), I'd be happy to send the program out your way.

In a nutshell, there is a field present where you enter a numerical value for how many mageborn NPCs you want generated. I then fills in the following fields/columns - one line per mageborn NPC:

NPC ID
ST
DX
IQ
HT
MAGERY
Social Status (Essentially Serf, Freeborn, etc)
Gender
Age
Date of projected Death

Age and projected age of death is in whole number and 3 decimal places. One need only multiply the decimal by 356.25 to determine the day the character was born. Any decimal portion after that calculation can be used to determine hour born, minutes, and even second if that matters.

The nice thing is that it works regardless of what fantasy year length you might choose to use.

As an added refinement, I've changed how my original code worked in that you are no longer stuck with using a 10:1 ratio of lowest Magery level to the next higher one. I've set it up so that it can use the following ratios:

3:1
4:1
5:1
6:1
7:1
8:1
9:1
10:1
12:1
20:1

It will work for assigned highest magery levels from as low as Magery 1 (if using magery 0) or as high as Magery 10.

So, you can set up your generation to include Magery 1 through 3, using 3:1 ratios if you desired, or you can use Magery 0 to 4 if you desired it.

All that really remains then, is setting up the code to export the generated material to a CSV format.

Seeing as how this worked out, I see no real reason to not take elements of the code for this app, and placing it in a new app that can generate random NPC's entirely (such as the rules given in GURPS BASIC SET 3rd edition revised).

But, I've got enough on my plate at the moment that I'll be happy to get this done by the end of June 5th.

As it turns out, the only way to get that file out to people is via my Dropbox. Please contact me via email if you want it.

Hal
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:18 PM   #55
hal
 
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

Update:

As I try and set things to where I can export the data directly into CSV file format, I noticed a few items.

When rolling for ages of the NPCs, I noted that in some instances, the character would be aging per the GURPS 3rd edition Revised aging rules. Would it be something that would be worth incorporating into the NPC generator?

Also, an interesting "issue" arose. If a given population of mageborn are such that you generate only 1 Mageborn 3 individual, absent books, how does a mageborn 3 individual study magery 3 based spells? If there are no teachers alive who can teach the next generation their spell list, how does one go about preserving magery 3 spells?

Just a thought.
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Old 06-01-2021, 11:06 PM   #56
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
Update:

As I try and set things to where I can export the data directly into CSV file format, I noticed a few items.

When rolling for ages of the NPCs, I noted that in some instances, the character would be aging per the GURPS 3rd edition Revised aging rules. Would it be something that would be worth incorporating into the NPC generator?
I would only do it if I included benefits from aging, like being more likely to be a larger landholder (more chances to inherit and to save money) or more points in skills. I'm tempted to see the rolled stats as their 'stats at the age of 25' and assume that they might change a point or so over the course of their life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
Also, an interesting "issue" arose. If a given population of mageborn are such that you generate only 1 Mageborn 3 individual, absent books, how does a mageborn 3 individual study magery 3 based spells? If there are no teachers alive who can teach the next generation their spell list, how does one go about preserving magery 3 spells?

Just a thought.
I think the most likely outcomes are 1) the "Einstein's Indian and Chinese equivalents" life path (they become famous in their valley but nobody else has heard of them because they are not part of a social network which can make them rich and famous for their skills) or 2) going off to school in a town or a city. Not many mages have chances to learn Magery 3 spells, and they probably learn them either from other Magery 3 mages or from books or research them themselves. That does get back to the questions "does this society have paper" and "does this society have printing"? In a society with either, its much more feasable for someone in the countryside to learn rare skills.

Edit: Steve Muhlberger has a life of Robert Grossteste who is a real person born poor in 12th century England who got an education and became a noted scholar. Someone took an interest in him and paid for him to go to school in the next shire and possibly to university for a year or two after that. From then on he was not part of peasant life any more (even if he might have to help manage a bishop's sheep flocks).

I have not seen your spreadsheet, but I am guessing that the villagers won't teach each other anything much more complicated than Magery 1, IQ 12+ spells. Its hard for a character with 'average stats' to learn the advanced spells in GURPS Magic.
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Last edited by Polydamas; 06-01-2021 at 11:51 PM.
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Old 06-02-2021, 01:15 PM   #57
ericthered
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
Also, an interesting "issue" arose. If a given population of mageborn are such that you generate only 1 Mageborn 3 individual, absent books, how does a mageborn 3 individual study magery 3 based spells? If there are no teachers alive who can teach the next generation their spell list, how does one go about preserving magery 3 spells?
I've always thought that was a core element of this exercise: what spells are in common circulation?


I personally think the 1:10 is too extreme, and is going to drive the power of the spells down, but we'll see.
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Old 06-03-2021, 11:16 AM   #58
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

If we assume 1% of the population are mages, and 90% of mages have magery 0, then we get:

4,000 people
40 mages of which 36 M0, 3-4 M1, 0-1 M2

On my suggested way of rolling stats, the most powerful mages are probably one with INT 12 Magery 0 and one with INT 11 Magery 1. There is a good chance that one of these two is under-age. The natural way to handle that would be for the known mages with an above-average IQ + Magery to be sent off to apprentice under the senior Magery 1 mage. Its not so clear to me what would happen to the average INT 10, Magery 0 peasant. Probably some can teach each other, and some learn under the more gifted mages. But just seeing which spells are useful for someone with INT 10 Magery 0 and which for someone with INT 11 Magery 1 will be educational.
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Old 06-03-2021, 12:13 PM   #59
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

Here is my first look at some colleges in GURPS Classic Magic Revised from the perspective of ordinary peasants. Whether one point (GURPS 4e) or skill 12 (GURPS 3e) in a spell allows it to count as a prerequisite affetcs things quite a bit. Personally, letting someone with skill 8 in a spell count it as 'known' feels wrong. I therefore decree that in my version of this setting, a spell must be known at skill 10 or greater to count as a prerequisite.
  • Animal: these don't require Magery but they require Persuasion, a C&E spell with two prerequisites. These are powerful (especially in areas where hunting or fishing are important) but hard to learn.
  • Body Control: these don't require magery. Might, Vigour, and Climbing are spells which someone might pay to have cast. Climbing could be important in areas where hunting up cliffs or birds-egging are important. Body Control has some minor curses which a cheeky young mage might put in time to learn.
  • C&E: Persuasion is useful (but probably more useful in a town) and so are the spells around knowing or compelling truth which begin with Truthsayer. They don't require Magery but they have two prerequisites.
  • Elemental: more later. A wizard who wants to make a living from Earth to Stone needs Magery 1.
  • Enchantment: Enchant requires Magery 2 and one spell in each of ten colleges so these spells are off-limits for the ordinary hedge-wizard. They can probably go to town for a Staff or Powerstone or Manastone and to a city to buy more powerful magic items. Anyone literate with Magery can learn Scroll.
  • Food: Test Food, Preserve Food (3 prerequisites), and Purify Food are powerful. So are Distill and Water to Wine (both with 3 prerequisites). Banquet is powerful but requires Magery 1. Purify Food does not scale, if insects or mould infest your grainary you have to purify it a few pounds at a time (and it does not turn decay back into healthy food). But its still better than nothing!
  • Metaspell: these all require Magery 1. Counterspell, Scryguard, and Ward might be worth an ordinary mage learning.

More in later posts ...
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Last edited by Polydamas; 06-03-2021 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 06-03-2021, 04:32 PM   #60
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Default Re: Mageborn are like Coins - Worldbuilding TL 3

I'd just like to add to the notes on C&E spells....


These could actually be quite useful to act as a communications network, especially as there is no high speed travel between villages. Having at least 1 mage in each town with appropriate communication spells could end up acting like a mail/messaging service, uniting the villages and allowing them better usage of specialists (mages included). (I don't have my books handy so I am unsure of exactly which spells would be best for this.)
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