Magic 4e: Cure Insanity?

[DrTemp]

Well, the Relieve Madness spell tells us that for permanent cure of a mental disad, one should use the Cure Insanity spell.

Unfortunately, that one does not exist. A mistake by the author, or did I overlook anything?

[RelFexive]

From the errata:

"Strike the sentence "For permanent relief, use Cure Insanity." from Relieve Madness."

[DrTemp]

Originally Posted by RelFexive

From the errata:

"Strike the sentence "For permanent relief, use Cure Insanity." from Relieve Madness."

Ah. Thanks.

Never mind, then. :-)

[evileeyore]

Yeah, I'm rezzing this thread...


So, is there an official reason Cure Insanity was struck from Magic 4e? Or was this a simple oversight?

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Yeah, I'm rezzing this thread...

So, is there an official reason Cure Insanity was struck from Magic 4e? Or was this a simple oversight?

I think it's fairly obvious that this (and Cure Addiction, from the same page of Grimoire) didn't make it because it involves a buying off a disadvantage. This is something that various GMs do differently and SJG has long resisted settling on "official" mechanics for. I suspect if Restoration hadn't been in the rules since forever, it wouldn't have made it either.

[David Johnston2]

That, and "Cure Insanity" isn't even something in the source material barring the kind of "insanity" that is the product of demonic possession or evil spells. When mundane insanity is cured by supernatural force majeure it tends to require direct celestial intervention.

Or this: https://youtu.be/kdIxSdhsUgs?t=121

And half the time that petrifies, banishes or outright kills the target.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I suspect if Restoration hadn't been in the rules since forever, it wouldn't have made it either.

No, with game mechanics that can disable PCs for inconvenient and/or impractical periods of time a game emchanic to re-able them is required. If anything Restoration should be easier.

Insanities that result from Demonic possession and similar probably yield to Remove Curse.

[Kax]

Therefore, given the above, if you cast Relieve Insanity on someone who has enough points and the desire to buy it off and they do so, the insanity doesn't come back.

The spell doesn't cure the insanity, it gives you the opportunity to cure it yourself without 4 years of psychotherapy.

[hal]

Originally Posted by Kax

Therefore, given the above, if you cast Relieve Insanity on someone who has enough points and the desire to buy it off and they do so, the insanity doesn't come back.

The spell doesn't cure the insanity, it gives you the opportunity to cure it yourself without 4 years of psychotherapy.

This is largely one of my "peeves" as a GM when it comes to SJGames GURPS...

Not to single you out Kax (seriously, I'm suggesting that the reasoning with SJGames with character design rules is the iss, not your adherence to said rules...)

If I start off with a character, take 3 disadvantages worth say, 45 points, and buy things with those 45 points (such as perhaps some extra skills, an advantage or two, plus a higher DX attribute) - I'm agreeing with the GM that the disadvantages I start with should be compensated for (ie with extra character points during design time). But if I were to engage in activity to "cure" myself of a disadvantage without having spare points around to pay for it - well, that seems to be "wrong" right?

So, let's take a specific case - losing one's hand. If during game play, I start off with the one handed disadvantage, I gained extra points for having done so. It is a "point" issue at that point in time. However, let's say that another player had a character who was whole of limb, who got caught stealing, and loses his hand as a consequence. That player didn't gain any "disadvantage points to compensate him for its loss (the hand). Instead, his character's point total is lowered to reflect his lesser value.

His character and my character both go to a mage who can regenerate the hand. Pay the money, and if the mage succeeds with his spell casting, a new hand appears after a sufficiently long period of time. Great!

So why does the same spell work for the one player character but not mine?

The answer? "It is an accounting issue".

As GM, my response would simply be "Ok, so, the GM is owed points for my not having paid back the Loan of points during character generation." At that point in time, the GM is entirely within his rights to either do one of two things:

1) reserve all experience point awards for the paying off of the load, which means I can't buy other things, nor improve skills etc until done paying it off...

2) take sufficient payment of character points as I might have available, but then give me a whole NEW disadvantage for the points I couldn't pay back then and there on the spot.

Either way? If through the normal course of play, I can get my hand back like any other character who lost their hand after the start of play - then it should work regardless of the "accounting issue".

Maybe my character is cursed so that any healing spell I try to cast suffers a -3 curse, which can trigger spell crit failures more often. Maybe my character is at the wrong spot, wrong time, and is accursed of stealing something. The penalty for stealing? The loss of the hand. That could be a "Destiny" that will come into play at some point in time.

Instead of relying upon "Accounting fiat" to determine whether or not something succeeds or not, my suggestion is to simply talk it over with the player (if you're the GM) or with the GM (if you're the player) and suggest alternative method of payment for the disadvantage that you were able to escape from without payment of character points as expected.

Likewise? If I create a dungeon that has $10,000,000, for which the player characters could have died trying to get it, could have been disabled, etc - then I'm not going to charge them character points for the "Wealth advantage". Just as a character does not gain disadvantage points for the bad things that happen after the start of play, he shouldn't have to pay character points for the good things he gains in play.

Two things to keep in the back of your mind...

A Devious GM can always trump any player character at any given moment. I had one player who was used to routinely killing Dragons in D&D. Then I had him face off against a Dragon in GURPS. Net result? His character was the victim of the "Create Earth" spell by the Dragon casting it as a large area effect. With is legs covered with dirt while standing, the Dragon cast "Earth to Stone". Then? He used his rather large tail to SWEEP against the poor guy - thereby breaking both his legs. This AFTER the Dragon kept out of bow range by dropping boulders on the abandoned city in an effort to kill the humans who had killed his clutch brother (Dragons in that game world would molt - becoming almost vulcan like mentally impaired during the process - one player killed a dragon that was largely bereft of his senses).

Then one GM pulled a FAST one on ME. A group of people were conspiring to steal from the party, and the leader made certain that his men would be in position before starting the attack. Problem was? The pre-emptive strike we employed to counter his plan made it look like WE were the aggressors, not them. The GM planned it that way on purpose of course, which didn't make me feel all that much better - I should have known better. ;)

So - the life of a player character is hard enough without the "Accounting" rules from GURPS. Simply hit them with a new disadvantage if they manage to fix the issue without paying character points. After all, they OWE on those points. You're the proverbial "Points Loan Shark" who can kneecap the character, burn his (the player character's!) house, give him a bad rep, etc - all because you say so.

;)

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I think it's fairly obvious that this (and Cure Addiction, from the same page of Grimoire) didn't make it because it involves a buying off a disadvantage.

I disagree, considering the number of ways to just give enemies Disadvantages in spells, and the various other Disad removing spells, Restoration, Remove Curse, Permanent Possession, Exchange Bodies, Dispel Possession, Stone to Flesh, Great Wish, Cure Disease, Restore Memory, Regeneration, Youth, Resurrection...