[MH] RPM Conditional Magic Enchanting - Caledbolg

[Adelus]

I decided, after looking at the Saga of Westmarch wiki's spell lists and seeing how Endowment of Fragmentation was done, to try and come up with a way to model a mythological weapon - considering I was going to use it in a setting soon, I decided on Caledbolg.

You could look up on wiki for the mythology surrounding it, but I'm just going to concern myself with its stated effects: being able to hurl scything rainbow arcs which can slaughter armies and engage in some creative landscaping.

So, I figured the effect could be covered by a combination of Project Blow and Conic would cover that. Far Shot would be needed to get longer range, but we'll not worry about that for the moment.

So, we have Project Conic Blast as the combination skill, and since this weapon should be suitably powerful in most people's hands, lets peg the skill granted at DX+5 for 28. Additionally, you would need Imbue 3 with the One Skill Only limitation.

Imbue 3 [One Skill Only, -80%] [8]
Project Conic Blast [DX+5] [28]

Additionally, the weapon should have an Energy Reserve to power it.

ER 20 [One Power Only, -50%] [30]

This should give about 10 uses until the user has to use up their own FP. This could also be adjusted as seen necessary.

So, now we have its iconic ability and a power source for it. What we don't have is the sheer power behind it - after all, this was supposed to be capable of slicing hills apart and bisecting whole armies where they stood!

Arm ST 40 [Two Arms, *5/3; One Ability Only, -80%] [40]

I am not at all sure about the legality of One Ability Only, and would definitely like correction if there is a more sensible way of adding the damage. As you should be able to tell, I intend for this ludicrous Arm ST to kick in only when using the Project Conic Blast - not when using the sword as normal.

So, now our fine weapon can project rainbow like arcs that can likely bisect a man through the waist and maybe do some landscaping. I'm not sure of the necessary level of damage for that kind of thing.

As one last bonus, lets consider the fact that most such mythological weapons are hardened against damage; lets give the object itself DR 4, to make shattering attempts a little more difficult.

DR 4 [20]

So, all in all, this comes out to...

Imbue 3 [One Skill Only, -80%] [8]
Project Conic Blast [DX+5] [28]
ER 20 [One Power Only, -50%] [30]
Arm ST 40 [Two Arms, *5/3; One Ability Only, -80%] [40]
DR 4* [20]
*Applies to weapon, not to holder.
Total: 126.


The base effects would be Lesser Strengthen Matter (for the DR) and (Greater/Lesser?) Strengthen Mind (for the Imbue skills). I'm currently at a loss for the other abilities. Would Create Magic work for the ER, and would it be Greater? Would the Arm ST be Strenghten Body, or would the fact it only affects the blasts themselves make them part of Energy (Strengthen effect)? I also wonder about the legality of adding an ER at all, since MH states that you cannot use added FP/HP for magical purposes, though I wonder how one could model a self-powered charmed item otherwise.

Lastly, we have the issue of duration - not yet ready to get into specifics about that yet, though I assume such a magic item would likely have a very long duration or have some outside force keeping it maintained at intervals.

That said, I would like to hear everyone's thoughts on this and suggestions/corrections! :)

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by Adelus

I decided, after looking at the Saga of Westmarch wiki's spell lists and seeing how Endowment of Fragmentation was done, to try and come up with a way to model a mythological weapon - considering I was going to use it in a setting soon, I decided on Caledbolg.

So, we have Project Conic Blast as the combination skill, and since this weapon should be suitably powerful in most people's hands, lets peg the skill granted at DX+5 for 28. Additionally, you would need Imbue 3 with the One Skill Only limitation.

Imbue 3 [One Skill Only, -80%] [8]
Project Conic Blast [DX+5] [28]

Here's the thing: the rules for Altered Traits only apply to attributes, advantages, and disadvantages. Improving skills goes under the "Bestows a Bonus or Penalty", so it's 16 energy for a +5 to a single skill, but that's from default. How that works for skills that have no defaults is unclear at best.

The rest of the analysis looks pretty solid, though you do run into the issue that RPM has no permanent magic items. You can pretty much handwave that, especially since RPK has made clear that extending the duration is a different ritual effect *and* that it doesn't take the Greater Effect modifiers. Anyway with enough skill to cast a ritual that costs 123+ energy is going to laugh at extending the duration. Assuming a Magery 5 witch and an initial duration of 5 months, it takes 30 seconds per casting to extend the duration by 5 months. (1 second to extend the duration by pulling from the witch's reserves, ~25 seconds to refill the reserve). An hour's worth of effort extends the duration by 50 years, an hour a day for a year and the sword basically lasts forever.

The larger problem is that the ritual to create the spell has 2-3 Greater Effects, on top of a very high base cost. Drawing ~900+ energy from multiple paths is something no single witch can do. I suspect several witches, working together with some BIG grimoires can probably manage it...
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=79214

Assuming a circle of 6 witches trying to draw 1050 energy total, or 175 each. They need an effective skill of 22 on their worst skill involved, and they're at -5 for the circle size. Assuming a +3 site of power, +1 charm kits, and skill-15, they'd each need a +8 grimoire. Of course, they only have a 47% chance of getting this off successful (cumulative critical failure rolls on 6 guys are pretty awful odds). Getting 6 guys to effective skill 33 (before circle mods) for a 5% individual critical failure chance isn't particularly likely, and adding more witches doesn't pay off.

I just don't see how you can cast a spell that has a better than even chance of literally blowing up and doing 6dx8 cutting damage (approximate effects of a 1000 energy backfire on the casting circle), especially since it ignores DR.

[Adelus]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Here's the thing: the rules for Altered Traits only apply to attributes, advantages, and disadvantages. Improving skills goes under the "Bestows a Bonus or Penalty", so it's 16 energy for a +5 to a single skill, but that's from default. How that works for skills that have no defaults is unclear at best.

Darn. I think I did it the other way because thats how it was on the Wiki.

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

The rest of the analysis looks pretty solid, though you do run into the issue that RPM has no permanent magic items. You can pretty much handwave that, especially since RPK has made clear that extending the duration is a different ritual effect *and* that it doesn't take the Greater Effect modifiers.

Yeah, I'm aware. I probably should've mentioned that; I just figured for a weapon of this thaumatological might, it would be assumed its duration would be ridiculous.

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

The larger problem is that the ritual to create the spell has 2-3 Greater Effects, on top of a very high base cost. Drawing ~900+ energy from multiple paths is something no single witch can do. I suspect several witches, working together with some BIG grimoires can probably manage it...
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=79214

Ah! So thats where that post was...

I was considering this would probably require a group (which you debunk rather nicely below) or the intervention of some serious higher powers (after all, Demons have pretty ridiculous Energy Reserves as demonstrated in MH3, and I'm guessing you could get similar boosts from particular spirits and gods - for a suitable price (such as Vow limitations, pacts, their constant surveilance, etc.).

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Assuming a circle of 6 witches trying to draw 1050 energy total, or 175 each. They need an effective skill of 22 on their worst skill involved, and they're at -5 for the circle size. Assuming a +3 site of power, +1 charm kits, and skill-15, they'd each need a +8 grimoire. Of course, they only have a 47% chance of getting this off successful (cumulative critical failure rolls on 6 guys are pretty awful odds). Getting 6 guys to effective skill 33 (before circle mods) for a 5% individual critical failure chance isn't particularly likely, and adding more witches doesn't pay off.

I just don't see how you can cast a spell that has a better than even chance of literally blowing up and doing 6dx8 cutting damage (approximate effects of a 1000 energy backfire on the casting circle), especially since it ignores DR.

Those are some pretty bad odds... though I find the mental imagery of a glorious, terrifying rainbow circle growing in size like a murderous spinning saw blade before lethally dismembering a bunch of arrogant casters hilarious but also somewhat unsettling.

[vierasmarius]

In this case, I don't think you really need the versatility of Imbuements. An 8d cut, 3yd Cone Innate Attack comes in at about 100 points, and can be used all day long without extra skill rolls or fatiguing the user.

[Adelus]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

In this case, I don't think you really need the versatility of Imbuements. An 8d cut, 3yd Cone Innate Attack comes in at about 100 points, and can be used all day long without extra skill rolls or fatiguing the user.

I have decided to try just that.

Cutting Attack 8d(2) (+70%) [Armor Divisor (2), +50%; Cone (4 yd), +90%; Breakable: Durability (DR 16-25), -5%; Breakable: Reparability (None), -15%; Breakable: Size (SM -1), -20%; Can Be Stolen (Quick Contest), -30%] [96]

I was and am still a bit iffy about some of the gadget limitations. On the one hand, one could see it as a point sink. On the other, I think it would be unfair to charge people full price when there are inherent gadget limitations involved with an enchanted weapon or charm already.

So, this version comes out a little cheaper, and a lot less kludgey. Maybe almost affordable.

[mlangsdorf]

I'd think the gadget limitations are probably illegitimate. At least the ones you're using: swords are smaller than SM-1 (-3 or worse to target them in combat) and can't (I think) be easily stolen with a quick contest.

However, you can really afford to put a lot more energy than a mere 100 in it - as RPK points out in this thread (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=81991), drawing 120 energy is trivial for a Witch, easy for a Sage, and doable for a dedicated non-mage. The most powerful magic weapon of an age is probably going to be created by a couple of powerful guys.

So take the same setup as last time, but only use 3 mages. They have an effective skill of 24 and can draw ~130 energy with minimal risk (slightly more including fatigue and energy reserves). Call it 400 energy. The cumulative chance of getting a critical failure is (1-.95^3), about 1 in 6. Pretty good odds to have a severely powerful sword. Of course, a critical failure still results in 400 energy of doom floating around, but magic always risky.

[Adelus]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

I'd think the gadget limitations are probably illegitimate. At least the ones you're using: swords are smaller than SM-1 (-3 or worse to target them in combat) and can't (I think) be easily stolen with a quick contest.

Well, Caledbolg was, IIRC, traditionally a large Greatsword. I figured it fell more within the 4.5' realm than a smaller sword. You are right about the quick contest bit though, in retrospect. Not sure how to handle the breakage - unless its made of some super-metal or magically altered (which would be another spell) I can't think of a reason for a magic sword to just become unbreakable by dint of being magic.

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

However, you can really afford to put a lot more energy than a mere 100 in it - as RPK points out in this thread (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=81991), drawing 120 energy is trivial for a Witch, easy for a Sage, and doable for a dedicated non-mage. The most powerful magic weapon of an age is probably going to be created by a couple of powerful guys.

So take the same setup as last time, but only use 3 mages. They have an effective skill of 24 and can draw ~130 energy with minimal risk (slightly more including fatigue and energy reserves). Call it 400 energy. The cumulative chance of getting a critical failure is (1-.95^3), about 1 in 6. Pretty good odds to have a severely powerful sword. Of course, a critical failure still results in 400 energy of doom floating around, but magic always risky.

Ah, this is great! Thanks for the link and suggestions. I'm pondering just making a catch-all thread for people to post conditional weapon setups now; legendary weapons or useful temporary charms.