09-25-2022, 05:25 PM | #1 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Wired
|
Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
For a while I've considered the possibility of disconnecting the concept of sapience from the IQ statistic. Currently, animals need huge increases in Per and Will just to function. That can easily be solved with independent Per and Will, but it leaves a different question. Should we even be representing sapience with low IQ to begin with? It's a qualitative difference:
Quote:
This has prompted me to attempt a writeup of Nonsapience as a disadvantage proper, partly modeled after the existing disadvantage representing a lack of the other edge humans have over most animals: No Fine Manipulators. Quote:
Last edited by VIVIT; 10-09-2022 at 12:05 PM. |
||
09-25-2022, 05:37 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Jun 2017
|
Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
I can't evaluate mechanics, but I am stealing this for the same reason you made it.
__________________
Pronoun: "They/She" |
09-25-2022, 10:45 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Feb 2011
|
Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
I think this is a great feature. I would add that there is room for a few gradations of this. At very least, it may do to have mitigations and modifiers, such as _semi-sapient_, which would reduce the point value but up your personal capacity to something like a great ape or some other animals.
Or perhaps add some clarifications for how the IQ scale works for non-sapients. Maybe IQ 10 with Non-sapient is something like a dolphin, ape, or elephant, while 8 puts you more in the bright dog range, and by the time you get to the 1-2 range it's invertebrates and such. And then you have the option of going higher. What's IQ 12 Non-sapient? IQ 20? Maybe some kind of highly, highly specialized artificial intelligence? |
09-26-2022, 05:31 AM | #4 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Wired
|
Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
Quote:
Quote:
Ideally, this should let us assess the point value of individual palettes of mental capabilities in terms of their actual utility (on an Ally if not on a PC) rather than pricing them in lockstep with some approximate mapping between GURPS IQ and the current scientific estimate of the creature's general intelligence. That's not what GURPS IQ is really for—which is also why I'd recommend against giving any creature an IQ score in the 1-2 range. Once an attribute gets that low, it ceases to have meaning as an attribute. Are you planning to roll against that IQ? If not, then just add Nonsentient [−200] or something and leave the IQ field blank. IQ is as irrelevant to a sponge as FP is to a machine. |
||
09-26-2022, 08:54 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Jan 2014
|
Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
Alright:
-> Allowing Cannot Speak to coexist with "Language is meaningless to you" feels an awful lot like double dipping. You take Cannot Speak to block your character from speaking. You upgrade it to Mute to block your character from making any noise at all. -> Chimpanzees and other apes will end up at IQ 11 if you add 5 points of IQ to them. Not sure if that fits your goal. -> You may need to include incompetence in several other skills that are pseudo-technological, like Accounting, Carpentry, Cooking, Esoteric Medicine, Hobby Skill, History, Knot Tying, Merchant, etc. -> In fact I might go as far to replace various incompetences with, "You may only learn and default to skills on your template and a GM defined list of skills." -> Let's just look at the math a little: Dyslexia [-10], Non-Iconographic [-10], Innumerate [-5], Cannot Speak [-15], "Cannot Sign" [-5?], "Cannot learn any technological skill" [-55?]. That seems like a bit of an overload on that last one there. |
09-26-2022, 09:49 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Apr 2019
|
Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
Quote:
|
|
09-26-2022, 10:07 AM | #7 | |
Join Date: May 2007
|
Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
Quote:
__________________
I predicted GURPS:Dungeon Fantasy several hours before it came out and all I got was this lousy sig. |
|
09-26-2022, 01:29 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Apr 2019
|
Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
Yes. This is a thread about disconnecting sapience from IQ, in which case, buying IQ of 6 or above with the proposed "Nonsapient" disadvantage would not give the character access to tech skills. A flat -100 for Nonsapient flattens the effect of tech levels. A genius chimp with IQ 6 is at a much greater disadvantage in the year 2022 AD than he would have been in the year 2022 BC, but the proposed Nonsapient disadvantage eliminates that distinction.
|
09-26-2022, 01:56 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: May 2007
|
Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
Quote:
This is the choice GURPS seems to make, and presumably the OP is retaining it to minimize changes (and to keep animal templates from changing in value with the campaign TL). Whether it is a good choice is a different question, but it seems consistent with other rules- for example, owning nothing more than the clothes on your back (Wealth:Dead Broke) is of constant value regardless of the tech level and the coolness of the toys you can't afford.
__________________
I predicted GURPS:Dungeon Fantasy several hours before it came out and all I got was this lousy sig. |
|
09-26-2022, 02:34 PM | #10 | |||||
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Wired
|
Re: Disconnecting Sapience from IQ
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Also, Apes can sign. Sort of. They're Ham-Fisted, so their pronunciation isn't very good, and no (verifiable) research has shown that they really understand what they're signing any more than parrots understand what they're saying. Again, Cannot Speak is a purely physical disadvantage. If Nonsapient were to include a signed analogue of Cannot Speak, that would be double-dipping… with No Fine Manipulators! |
|||||
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|