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Old 06-12-2015, 10:03 AM   #51
sonic232
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: Reign of Steel is out!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerBW View Post
Speaking with my "author of Will to Live" hat on, I would use the standard GURPS rules: starting wealth based on the campaign TL (presumably 9), bearing in mind that some things aren't readily available depending on where you are.

If your recruits were, say, nomads from Zone Denver, well, they were clearly successful nomads, but they probably don't have a TL9 hoverjeep because the satellites would spot the dust and IR plume and roving Vultures would kill it. But they may well have some quite nifty guns.

If I were running a campaign of "struggling nomads", I'd probably put some degree of Poverty on the required-traits list.

If I wanted my PCs to be dependent on Virus for everything, I'd put Flat Broke on the template (as G&A suggested); then they'd have their VIRUS-issued gear and nothing else.

And so on. It's a big world and can fit a lot of different sorts of campaign.
Sir, thank you so much for replying to this. I've actually adapted most of the backgrounds you give in that supplement to fit the 20 point GURPS Action backgrounds, modifying the disadvantages from 'required' to 'added to your suggested list on the template' as well so they don't go over the suggested -50 Disadvantage limit that Action puts in when you use Rule of Ham, other than Social Stigma (Outlaw), which I'm making a required disadvantage. I use it to buy some of the advantages that go with the backgrounds that include it. Mechrider, though, I couldn't reduce, so you have to pay 20 additional points out of Advantages to get it.

As for equipment, I'm going to do starting equipment GURPS Action style, where characters are encouraged to use VIRUS equipment rather than their own, given the starting wealth as a budget, which is looking to be TL 9's $30,000, but they're welcome to purchase with their own wealth with the caveat that VIRUS has already gone through the trouble of making sure the equipment they provide isn't as easily tracked by the machines to be specific to their group rather than VIRUS in general. The reason I was asking the question is I wanted to be sure I stayed within what the campaign expects and I'm going to be designing some Loadouts for the templates in Action and the Backgrounds from Will to Live.
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Old 06-12-2015, 09:39 PM   #52
scc
 
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Default Re: Reign of Steel is out!

Wealth represents two things: How much money you start with and your ability to hold onto money in the long run. For Reign of Steel the first is important, it determines how much stuff you start with, but the second doesn't matter unless the character is part of a settled society.

From what I know of RoS the second part isn't likely to come up unless the character is a civilian in the Washington Zone or somewhere else where there is a human society
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Old 06-13-2015, 02:15 AM   #53
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Default Re: Reign of Steel is out!

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Originally Posted by scc View Post
Wealth represents two things: How much money you start with and your ability to hold onto money in the long run. For Reign of Steel the first is important, it determines how much stuff you start with, but the second doesn't matter unless the character is part of a settled society.

From what I know of RoS the second part isn't likely to come up unless the character is a civilian in the Washington Zone or somewhere else where there is a human society
Either there's more than two things, or one needs to use a much wider-than-usual reading of 'hold onto money':
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Ah, no . . . capital-W Wealth the advantage is in itself a measure of social connectedness, credit rating, and economic power. It doesn't go away just because you lose money in bad times. You still have the connections and the credit history; you just don't have the cash. Small-w wealth the real-world concept certainly varies, but on the other hand isn't anything but your bank balance.
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The intent of the game design is that the +1 or +2 to Status from Wealth is actual base Status. It isn't an "effective Status" modifier at all. Capital-W Wealth changes your Status. Small-w wealth including what you can afford to pay as cost of living affects only effective Status. You seem to be confusing Wealth with wealth. Wealth is a highly complex, abstract social advantage that encompasses about as much as IQ does, including but not limited to starting money, job qualifications, social connections, credit rating, land, and a hidden economic parallel to Status.
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Yeah, that's a different take than the game uses. If you win the lottery tomorrow, your Wealth does not change by default. That's just the spoils of war, the way the cookie crumbles, etc. It's no different from making a friend in play, which doesn't require Ally, or finding a magic sword, which doesn't grant you Signature Gear or a gadget built as advantages. Your Wealth only changes if you specifically invest the required capital taking it out of play to buy, bribe, and insure your way to a social position where future changes in fortune won't alter the respect and credit accorded to you. This is the big difference between somebody who keeps their winnings as liquid assets and uses them for trips, cars, and homes, and somebody who invests their winnings in nonliquid assets that will continue to make them money in the future. The former only requires cash; the latter also calls for points, which represent the work done to build networks.
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To be fair, I wanted to call it "Economic Rank" or "Economic Status," but others felt that was too close to "Rank" and "Status," and probably easily confused given its relationship with the political kind of Status.
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I generally read "Wealth" as "Credit Rating" and "Status" as "Social Clout," and stop there. I only track money specifically to know how much each PC has for the purpose of bribes and emergencies, and I only track that so I can assess the encumbrance and bandit-bait factors. I really don't care if PC Without a Credit Rating has $100,000 in silver on him, but he sure as hell has to lug the 100 lbs. around and deal with it slowing him down when the bandit horde attacks. Meanwhile, the PC With a Credit Rating can just waltz into town, flash his signet and arms, and get what he needs on a promise. Of course, the former PC is at an advantage when bribing guards at 2 a.m., but then again, the guards might decide to "confiscate" the cash, and then it's back to dodging with 100 lbs. on your back.
So, in a setting with no official cash, someone with Wealth as opposed to just a stash of valuable gods, represents e.g. a chieftain, a trustworthy scrounger, a known fixer etc. And this Wealth doesn't go away by losing the gear. S/he can waltz into a camp of humans and ask for material aid, and people will tend to go along with the request, because they know s/he will bring back a return on their investment, repay the debt etc.
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Old 06-13-2015, 03:57 AM   #54
scc
 
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Default Re: Reign of Steel is out!

Vicky, those are some interesting Kromm quotes, it will take a while to digest them and figure out whats being said.

That said, I was pointing that out outside of starting cash Wealth doesn't do much in a RoS game apart from determine the gear you can start with so there's no need to play around with the starting cash number.
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Old 06-14-2015, 07:57 AM   #55
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Default Re: Reign of Steel is out!

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Vicky, those are some interesting Kromm quotes, it will take a while to digest them and figure out whats being said.

That said, I was pointing that out outside of starting cash Wealth doesn't do much in a RoS game apart from determine the gear you can start with so there's no need to play around with the starting cash number.
If Wealth did nothing, then the recommended character types within both Classic and Will to Live wouldn't include it as a recommended advantage.

RoS p84: "Most people are Status 0, with a wandering doctor or the head of a survivalist enclave, nomad pack or cult, being Status 1-2 depending on its size. Leadership in a guerrilla group is based on the Military Rank advantage.

For humans living in Zone Washington and Zone London, normal Status levels for a 20th-century campaign apply. Robots (except those in Zone Washington) take no account of human status: everyone is either enemy or collaborator."

So the Status that comes WITH Wealth would do plenty and likely would make you, as Vicky said, somebody trustworthy with the clout to request aid and receive it on the knowledge that they can pay them back. Not only that, but Classic does state that humans start with less starting wealth than Machines unless those humans are allied with the machines somehow (Zone Moscow, a full Cyborg, a Zoneganger, etc...). Less starting wealth is not Wealth (Dead Broke), but the less starting wealth that it came with did not match typical Negative Wealth levels, which is where my question came from in the first place.

Last edited by sonic232; 06-14-2015 at 08:01 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:03 PM   #56
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Default Re: Reign of Steel is out!

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...everyone is either enemy or collaborator."...
i.e. Kill now, kill later.
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Old 06-14-2015, 05:03 PM   #57
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Default Re: Reign of Steel is out!

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i.e. Kill now, kill later.
We have both sorts of attitude to humans here: readily-harvested organic substrate, and plague upon the face of the planet.
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Old 06-19-2015, 04:20 PM   #58
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Default Re: Reign of Steel is out!

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We have both sorts of attitude to humans here: readily-harvested organic substrate, and plague upon the face of the planet.
Does this setting rawk, or what?
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