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Old 07-01-2021, 09:32 AM   #1
FlowersOfEdo
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Default Question About "Weapons as Gizmos" from Supers

Hi, everyone!

I love the "Weapons as Gizmos" information from Supers. The example given in the text (a super archer's suite of trick arrows) makes sense and really fits the feel of the genre.

However, one question I have is what would be a fair method for determining maximum effect from non strength-based Gizmo weapons? In the trick-arrow example, the appropriate damage/effect of the arrows seems tied to the strength/damage output of the archer (including factors that boost the archer's damage, like Weapon Master or better equipment). But what if the Gizmo's damage/effect isn't tied to the character's strength/damage?

For example, how would you go about setting similarly fair effectiveness guidelines for the Obscure effect of smoke pellets or the Affliction of gas capsules or the burning damage of a mini laser torch, all stuff that a Batman-style hero might carry in his utility belt and use as needed?

I know it's possible to design all this stuff with Modular Abilities or buy analogs from Ultra Tech or design as Advantages with Gadget Limitations (which I've done), I was just wonder how to approach this using Gizmos specifically.

Thanks for any responses!
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Old 07-01-2021, 09:55 AM   #2
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Question About "Weapons as Gizmos" from Supers

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowersOfEdo View Post
I know it's possible to design all this stuff with Modular Abilities or buy analogs from Ultra Tech or design as Advantages with Gadget Limitations (which I've done), I was just wonder how to approach this using Gizmos specifically.

Thanks for any responses!
If you can find it in High Tech (or even stat it from Real World sources) it's just a regular Gismo and works like HT says it does. If you can find it in UT you'll need to raise your character's personal TL and pay extra but otherwise it's the same.

Gizmos are basically for things that could be bought or built as Gear and work the same no matter who the user is.
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Old 07-01-2021, 10:41 AM   #3
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Portsmouth, VA, USA
Default Re: Question About "Weapons as Gizmos" from Supers

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlowersOfEdo View Post
Hi, everyone!

I love the "Weapons as Gizmos" information from Supers. The example given in the text (a super archer's suite of trick arrows) makes sense and really fits the feel of the genre.

However, one question I have is what would be a fair method for determining maximum effect from non strength-based Gizmo weapons? In the trick-arrow example, the appropriate damage/effect of the arrows seems tied to the strength/damage output of the archer (including factors that boost the archer's damage, like Weapon Master or better equipment). But what if the Gizmo's damage/effect isn't tied to the character's strength/damage?

For example, how would you go about setting similarly fair effectiveness guidelines for the Obscure effect of smoke pellets or the Affliction of gas capsules or the burning damage of a mini laser torch, all stuff that a Batman-style hero might carry in his utility belt and use as needed?

I know it's possible to design all this stuff with Modular Abilities or buy analogs from Ultra Tech or design as Advantages with Gadget Limitations (which I've done), I was just wonder how to approach this using Gizmos specifically.

Thanks for any responses!
In the past I've just used the total CP cost of a bit of gear as the base and then designed whatever using that total value.
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Old 07-01-2021, 10:41 AM   #4
JulianLW
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default Re: Question About "Weapons as Gizmos" from Supers

"What would be a fair method for determining maximum effect from non strength-based Gizmo weapons?"

Note: I'm talking about a "Gizmo effect" here, not an actual piece of gear, since the question is about Powers.

From Supers 82:

"Note that if the archer is stronger, or has Weapon Master (Bow), or has fine-quality arrows, all of which increase damage, the point value of the basic attack goes up, and so does the allowable point value of Gizmos."

If it were me, I would base Batman's Gizmos on the items in High-Tech and Ultra-Tech, as Fred Brackin suggests, but if the Gizmos are specialized in the way that Hawkeye's arrows are, in the example, then I'd base the value on whatever power the Gizmo is connected to with the trait limitation.

"'Arrows only' is a focus limitation worth -15%. 'Ranged attacks only' is a trait limitation worth -30%. Together they reduce the cost of a Gizmo to 2.75 points, which rounds up to 3 points ... for a ST 12 archer, this is 1d+2, equivalent to 1.6 dice, with each die of Impaling Attack being worth 8 points. Letting an arrow inflict [any] attack costing up to [the equivalent of] 12 points is fair" (Supers 82).

So, if you had, for example, different tricks that Cyclops could do with his visor for his Innate Attack: Gaze, then I'd base them on the value of that Innate Attack. Not much different in that case than basing the value of the Gizmo effect on Hawkeye's ST + bonuses.

But if the Gizmo is a weapon based on a non-attack advantage, which is how I interpret your question, like if the Invisible Woman can use her Invisibility field to do the occasional trick, then I'd base the value of the Gizmo on an Alternative Ability to the power that provides the trait limitation: in this case, it's Damage Resistance with a Force Field enhancement.

Looking at Phantasm's amazingly cool GURPS Marvel Universe, I find this in the list of Advantages for Susan Storm, the Invisible Woman:

"Damage Resistance 30 (Area Effect: 16 yds, +200%; Force Field, +20%; Hardened 3, +60%; No Signature, +20%; Requires Concentrate, -15%; Switchable, +10%; Psionic, -10%; Alternative Ability, 1/5) [116]."

{She also has Force Constructs Talent 2 [10], which would give her a +2 to use whatever Gizmo she creates. More importantly, Phantasm has given her the very powerful "Modular Abilities (Cosmic Power: Force Constructs) (Points of Abilities: 50; Physical Only, +50%; Trait Limited: Advantages Only, -10%; Psionic, -10%) [650]" - which is how she constructs stuff, making the Gizmos advantage moot, since she can make basically unlimited tricky effects with up to a 50 point value with her invisibility field - but let's ignore that and see how to build a single use Gizmo effect.}

Anyway, I'd let each single use of the Gizmo effect (Focus-Limited: Force Field Effects -15%) for the Invisible Woman be worth 23 points (the DR's point value of 116 divided by 5). So she can use that DR 30 Force Field, in a pinch (one use of the Gizmo effect), to punch someone within 10 yards (a standard innate crushing attack) for 4d damage. And because it's a use of a Gizmo rather than a true Alternative Ability, it doesn't drop the Force Field around her.

I suppose it'd be legit to base the Gizmo effect on the full value of the enabling advantage too, so that, in the case above, that punch with the Force Field would do 23d crushing instead of just 4d!

But if I were making this, I would base the value on a possible Alternative Ability, since DR isn't an attack. In my opinion, an attack Gizmo based on a non-attack advantage should be an AA. That just seems more correct, intuitively, to me.

But now I'm interested in hearing how others would handle this too, because I suspect there will be different - and possibly much better - answers than mine!

EDIT: Just realized I created an Alternative Ability of an Alternative Ability (sort of)! So I don't know how legit that is at all! Anyway, that's my 2 cents!

Last edited by JulianLW; 07-01-2021 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 07-01-2021, 11:00 AM   #5
FlowersOfEdo
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Default Re: Question About "Weapons as Gizmos" from Supers

These are all terrific answers. Genuinely helpful.

Fred's option of raising TL and using items listed in UT cuts down on bookkeeping.

Christopher's and Julian's options both allow for ability customization in way that appeals to the creative/tinkering instinct I have but doesn't involve a cluttered list of abilities (at least not on the main character sheet) while seeming fair from a points standard.

All good stuff, and all useful. Thanks a lot!

If anyone has any additional suggestions, I would love to hear them!
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