Tigers, Martial arts, and biting SM.

[Talonos]

The tiger template in the Basic Set was developed before the biting SM rules in Martial arts came out. In your opinion, would a tiger have increased biting SM? I understand that a +3 is probably for truly disproportionally large jaws, such as a crocodile, but would a +1 to biting SM be appropriate for a tiger? Or is it more suited for a canine?

Also, what would be your opinion on a biting SM+2 creature? Just for comparison purposes?

[aesir23]

A tiger should have the Born Biter perk. +1 SM

A Hyena would probably be a +2 SM biter, as would monitor lizards and some snakes.

Sharks and Crocs would be +3, as you say.

[sir_pudding]

SWAG:
SM 1 seems reasonable for most predators. Certainly for cats.

SM 2 probably covers predators that kill primarily by bite, but don't have especially oversized jaws. Wolves, lots of fish, monitors, thylacines...

I suppose you could actually compare jaw-size/body length to human jaw/body length to get some kind of scale. It might be interesting.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Talonos

The tiger template in the Basic Set was developed before the biting SM rules in Martial arts came out. In your opinion, would a tiger have increased biting SM? I understand that a +3 is probably for truly disproportionally large jaws, such as a crocodile, but would a +1 to biting SM be appropriate for a tiger? Or is it more suited for a canine?

Also, what would be your opinion on a biting SM+2 creature? Just for comparison purposes?

A tiger, like a cat, has a pretty short muzzle. I'm not sure they merit a bonus. Maybe +1 at max, but I might use that for a typical dog.

Bill Stoddard

[pawsplay]

I retain the opinion I expressed last time; Born Biter exists to distinguish wolves from tigers. Tigers are not born biters; they box or trip their prey, then rip out of the jugular.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

I retain the opinion I expressed last time; Born Biter exists to distinguish wolves from tigers. Tigers are not born biters; they box or trip their prey, then rip out of the jugular.

I would expect them to use also the characteristic cat move: drop on the prey from above, hold on with your teeth, and rake with your back legs, ripping out its entrails.

Bill Stoddard

[pawsplay]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I would expect them to use also the characteristic cat move: drop on the prey from above, hold on with your teeth, and rake with your back legs, ripping out its entrails.

Bill Stoddard

Tigers are usually too big to drop from above safely, but they will jump or run at high speeds and unbalance their prey, for much the same effect.

[Kromm]

Just saw a tiger two days ago, about 2m away. I'd say +1 to SM for biting; it has a muzzle (so there's some optimization for biting), but it's short. I saw a gator the same day, about 3m away. Now that's +3 to SM for biting. I'd estimate that most things with canine builds would be in between, at +2.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Just saw a tiger two days ago, about 2m away. I'd say +1 to SM for biting; it has a muzzle (so there's some optimization for biting), but it's short. I saw a gator the same day, about 3m away. Now that's +3 to SM for biting. I'd estimate that most things with canine builds would be in between, at +2.

Would this be a feature, like Elongated Snout 1? Otherwise loads of animals have only reach C attacks.

[Kromm]

Born Biter is a feature already . . . it's in Martial Arts (see p. 115), although its effects on reach are mirrored in the monsters in the Dungeon Fantasy series. That said, loads of animals do only have Reach C attacks. The vast majority of beasts are out of luck fighting a tool-user with a Reach 1+ weapon; that's part of why the planet is overrum by humans who extinguish other species almost by accident. Sans weapons, humans only manage Reach 1 with a somewhat awkward kick; our punch is Reach C.