[Basic] Advantage of the Week: Fashion Sense

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Not as such. It has notes on how the French tried hard to stay well-dressed, and implies that it may be more common there. It gives an additional bonus:

It's a pity that that small benefit didn't get ported over to the GURPS 4E version of Fashion Sense. It's not just appropriate for Occupied France, but also "inspired improvisation" by any impoverished fashionista, like like Scarlett O'Hara sewing a dress made from rags or rappers (or 16th c. Lanskneckts) making oversized and tattered clothes into a fashion statement.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by RyanW

It would be interesting to rebuild it as a modified Charisma (Useable on others, Preparation required, Must be seen rather than speak, Doesn't work in situations that do not allow fashionable expression, ...) and see where it comes out.

If you design it as a power, the improvement to one's own appearance is effectively a Perk:

Charisma 1 (Special Modifier: Alternate Sense (Subject must be seen rather than heard), +0%. Limitations: Accessibility (Only in situations where fashionable expression might make a difference), -60%; Accessibility (Requires access to suitable clothing, makeup, etc.), -20%; Preparation Required (10 minutes), -30%). [1 point].

The real expense comes from its transferable powers:

Affliction (Enhancement: Bestows Advantage (Fashion Sense Perk), +1%; Cosmic (No skill roll required), +100%. Extended Duration (10x, "Permanent" but easily canceled for multiple reasons), +40%. Limitations: Accessibility (Requires access to suitable clothing, makeup, etc.), -20%; Accessibility (Subject must be cooperative and present for entire preparation time), -80%; Melee Attack (Reach C), -30%; Preparation Required (1 hour), -50%.) [6 points].

I had to bend the rules for Affliction and the Permanent enhancement a bit but the costs are fairly close.

[SimonAce]

Never seen it in a game but we mostly play Sword and Sorcery

IRL I know a young lady that probably had this. Worked at a local bookstore and each time I came every couple weeks, sometimes more she had a new outfit and a new style that always looked amazing

This on a bookstore salary

It probably should work as a talent and add to appropriate skills though since its 5 points and you could just take Charisma for the same cost/

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Bolded for my point. I know basically if not literally nothing about what 'Fashion Sense' translates to in real life. You said it takes a 'moment' and I thought it took most people longer than a moment to even get clothes on. Like, what you're describing sounds like a super power.

You've never known someone who always seems to look good in what they wear? It's about people who match the right items or colours or styles and so on, and they do it pretty much intuitively, taking very little time. Hence, as per the rule, if you have any time to plan ahead it applies.

Such people will adjust the way something sits or fits or add or remove something or rip it or tie it and so on - those are just a few example. It's not something that takes hours of planning and special order clothing.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Farmer

You've never known someone who always seems to look good in what they wear? It's about people who match the right items or colours or styles and so on, and they do it pretty much intuitively, taking very little time. Hence, as per the rule, if you have any time to plan ahead it applies.

Such people will adjust the way something sits or fits or add or remove something or rip it or tie it and so on - those are just a few example. It's not something that takes hours of planning and special order clothing.

You understand that "a moment" and "hours of planning" are not immediately adjacent concepts? There is a huge and hugely important range between them.

It doesn't take hours and special order clothing, fine. Does it take minutes and a wardrobe? Or actually, as you previously asserted, only "a moment", which to me conveys less time than it takes most people to get clothes on at all?

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

You understand that "a moment" and "hours of planning" are not immediately adjacent concepts? There is a huge and hugely important range between them.

It doesn't take hours and special order clothing, fine. Does it take minutes and a wardrobe? Or actually, as you previously asserted, only "a moment", which to me conveys less time than it takes most people to get clothes on at all?

I'm not sure it's helpful to continue the discussion. The reading of the rule, and the real life versions of it, take almost no time at all for someone with the experience or skill to decide what to wear and make adjustments (add something, remove something, change how something is being worn).

If you really want to break it down into combat rounds, or if every second counts in a situation, feel free to rule that they don't have time. But, really, anytime someone is getting dressed is enough time for Fashion Sense to be applied, and often less.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by Farmer

You've never known someone who always seems to look good in what they wear? It's about people who match the right items or colours or styles and so on, and they do it pretty much intuitively, taking very little time. Hence, as per the rule, if you have any time to plan ahead it applies.

Such people will adjust the way something sits or fits or add or remove something or rip it or tie it and so on - those are just a few example. It's not something that takes hours of planning and special order clothing.

I don't know if they have Fashion Sense, high Appearance, a relevant skill at a high level, a quirk where they will make sure what they are wearing works, or something else. In fact, I could make four (or more!) characters with different reasons they all succeed at this.

Originally Posted by Farmer

But, really, anytime someone is getting dressed is enough time for Fashion Sense to be applied, and often less.

If this is the intended amount of time, then at least that is something of substance. For instance, if it was like "You can do this as part of getting a wardrobe on or over the course of thirty seconds" then that's at least gameable, if not necessarily narratively or realistically cohesive. On the flipside, it also makes Fashion Sense seem far better than similar traits because the 'downtime' is so small (we can assume people have time to put on clothes) and the ability to transfer is thus effectively free.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

You understand that "a moment" and "hours of planning" are not immediately adjacent concepts? There is a huge and hugely important range between them.

It doesn't take hours and special order clothing, fine. Does it take minutes and a wardrobe? Or actually, as you previously asserted, only "a moment", which to me conveys less time than it takes most people to get clothes on at all?

I think trying to have a single rule is a mistake. The Basic Set says, "when you have a chance to plan your attire in advance." That could be as quick as choosing something from your suitcase or your closet, or as slow as shopping at a store, or as even slower as planning and sewing garments, depending on what your resources are. The crucial thing is that it isn't limited by how much money you have to spend, beyond the minimum to buy clothes or materials as all. You could shop at a high end department store or a thrift store, and your infallible taste would still work for you. But the GM would get to figure out what time it took for you to prepare an outfit; it's a judgment call.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I think trying to have a single rule is a mistake. The Basic Set says, "when you have a chance to plan your attire in advance."

Agreed. "Planning in advance" can be lots of things depending on the situation.

* Making a quick modification to a simple garment like a t-shirt or jumpsuit to make it more flattering in comparison to other people wearing the same thing.

* Custom tailoring which turns an outfit from "fits well enough" to "fits perfectly." This might initially take anywhere from 30 minutes to several hours of alterations and sewing but no extra time after that.

* Extra daily attention to detail to make an otherwise ordinary outfit look as good as it can. This could take 1+ hr. per day in careful pressing, cleaning, etc. (e.g., a military officer or NCO with perfectly creased trousers, ribbons and unit patches arranged exactly according to regulations, and boots, brass, etc. shined to a mirror finish.)

* Time consuming "off-stage" wardrobe choices which allow you to "instantly" look good in any outfit you wear due to careful attention to cut, quality, color & pattern choices, clever use of accessories, etc.

* Hours or months spent sweating the details over an elaborate costume for a formal ball or royal court appearance.

[mburr0003]

I'm more of the opinion that "Fashion Sense" makes more sense as a Skill, then the MoS can be applied in some manner as a Reaction Bonus and Time Use can factor in.