Hero System ability design

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

You can get an entangle that's transparent to attack, but the target can still break out of it with strength.

How does STR help with electrical locking up of the muscles? It seems as if the electricity is inducing the muscles to work against themselves.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by whswhs

How does STR help with electrical locking up of the muscles? It seems as if the electricity is inducing the muscles to work against themselves.

The logic is that the stronger the target, the more of a charge it would take to lock up the muscles. So an attack that would incapacitate someone with a STR of 10 might only partially incapacitate someone with a Strength of 25. Anyway, that's if you want to use Entangle as the mechanic. If you think the paralysis should be equally effective regardless of Strength, I'd go with Mind Control based on Con.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Infornific

The logic is that the stronger the target, the more of a charge it would take to lock up the muscles. So an attack that would incapacitate someone with a STR of 10 might only partially incapacitate someone with a Strength of 25. Anyway, that's if you want to use Entangle as the mechanic. If you think the paralysis should be equally effective regardless of Strength, I'd go with Mind Control based on Con.

I've tried that, but it seems incredibly expensive; as Anthony points out, it doesn't really compete with a simple STUN attack. I'm leaning toward treating it as an analog of a Flash, with the BODY treated as seconds of paralysis. With that treatment, 30 active points are enough to make an average person lose a phase.

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I've started talking with the players for Science Heroes! about character concepts. One of them wants to play a young woman with bioelectric powers. A plausible application of such powers seems to be a paralyzing effect. But I'm not seeing anything like that in The Hero System Basic Rulebook, sixth edition.

What would be a plausible representation of this? I've thought of three starting points:

Being paralyzed makes you unable to move, and that seems like an Entangle; however, the paralysis could be argued to last only which contact is maintained, and the electrical effect that creates it isn't a physical thing that can be attacked.

Being paralyzed is roughly as limited as being blinded, so I might treat it as having the same cost as Flash against a targeting sense, disabling the targeted character for some number of seconds.

Being paralyzed could be interpreted as being changed into an unmoving character, removing abilities the target has (the ability to move voluntarily), and thus could be a Transform at 10 points/1d6 BODY—but I'm not sure what would be the method of regaining the "normal form" (that is, shaking off the paralysis)? "Just wait a few seconds" seems too easy here.

Any thoughts on how well these would work? Or any other ideas?

The transform feels immediately wrong to me. But keep in mind, transform points go away, per vol 1 p 307 rc § Healing from Transform, at the usual BODY healing rate. This is hella-slow and inappropriate for a zap's stun, IMO, but it's effective as an all or nothing... which is why it feels wrong to me.

Flash only affects senses, and doesn't actually prevent actions. Sure, it adds penalties, but it doesn't stop the target nor slow the target.

Entangle's requirements are sub-par for the reasons you list - duration, maintenance, tangibility... it's a sub-par choice, but it would be my second choice.


My own thoughts

I think you're possibly overthinking it. Realistically, if it's preventing all actions, and actions are the direct result of the speed attribute.

Looking at that (vol 1 p. 45), SPD 0 is immobile, DCV 0, and targeting penalties are halved. Only post-12 recovery allowed. That sounds like the desired effect of a paralysis by electroshock.

Which leads me immediately to a Drain (vol 1 p 195 rc) on SPD, at (under 6th) 10 points per die, with a return of 5 points per round, and 10 rolled being needed to cost one point of speed. This gives the slowdown on everything, including movement, thought, other physical action, can be an immediate slowdown, can do partial effect (it doesn't need to overcome the whole of an attribute), and excess can be tracked. Further, given that a drain can go past 0 for purposes of recovery, it can thus provide a significant effect lasting several turns if enough is done. To actually stop a character, it's going to be about 6d6 for baseline SPD 2, 9d6 to insta-stop SPD 3. Note that it will last one round per 5 points done, but will only cost an action at 5, 15, 25 etc... rounding. (Prior editions, even 1 point would cost an action, as SPD rounding was an exception, being always round down. HSR 5e pg 38, if you want to check.)

I'd argue that, since speed is normally only affected by power defense, putting a -1/4 affected by ED/rED would be a reasonable mod to match to the special effect of a zap.

I'd also suggest it be linked to a blast (vol 1 p 174 lc) of same number of dice (which many GM's I've discussed Hero with would then allow the linked power to share the same dice throw for effects. YMMV

in exemplar mode:
ZAP! [(3d6 SPD Drain, -1/4 affected by ED, -0 linked to blast 30 AP, 24 points)(3d6 energy blast, -1/2 linked to SPD Drain, 15 AP, 10 points), 45 AP, 34 RC, 5 end.] This is a single target.
Area effect would have a much higher cost...

Anyway, on a successful to hit it does 3d6 drain and 3d6 normal, both ED reduced.
RAW, that results in 3d6-ED to SPD. We then separately roll the damage for the blast.
Let's assume a roll of ⚂⚃⚅ = 13on the drain: that reduces the current active points of SPD by 13-ED, or 11. So, this round, their speed is down two; post segment 12, it drops the drain by 5, for a total of 6, thus down 1 SPD, and post seg 12 to 1 for down 1 in third round.
Likewise, assuming a matching roll, ⚂⚃⚅ = 13 stun & 3 body, after ED doing 11 stun and 1 body.

Which all sounds about right a balance.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by ak_aramis

I think you're possibly overthinking it. Realistically, if it's preventing all actions, and actions are the direct result of the speed attribute.

Looking at that (vol 1 p. 45), SPD 0 is immobile, DCV 0, and targeting penalties are halved. Only post-12 recovery allowed. That sounds like the desired effect of a paralysis by electroshock.

I thought of Drain (though of DEX rather than SPD). But even assigning it to SPD, it seems to have a couple of flaws.

For one thing, if you can Drain 2 levels of SPD, you can paralyze an ordinary human being until their SPD recovers (which I think will take two full turns), but if you hit a super with SPD 6, you only lower them to SPD 4, which does no more than slow them down marginally. That doesn't seem like a good fit to causing a muscular seizure. I feel as if it ought to be more all or nothing.

For another, if you drain SPD to 0, it seems that you would also prevent purely mental actions, and lower mental combat values to 0. But this electric shock is a muscular effect; wouldn't it logically be confined to physical actions and physical combat?

[Agemegos]

There used to be a power called “mental paralysis”, a form of entangle. Has it gone away?

Described on p.110 of Fifth edition, it involved taking the advantages “based on ECV”, “takes no damage”, and “works on EGO not Strength” on the power Entangle. I’d suggest the limitation “cannot form barriers” as well.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

There used to be a power called “mental paralysis”, a form of entangle. Has it gone away?

Described on p.110 of Fifth edition, it involved taking the advantages “based on ECV”, “takes no damage”, and “works on EGO not Strength” on the power Entangle. I’d suggest the limitation “cannot form barriers” as well.

I don't have 5/e. I have 4/e and the basic version of 6/e. Neither seems to discuss this option.

But looking at those advantages, I have doubts about "based on ECV" and "works on EGO not Strength." Those would make sense for, say, a psionic suppression of volitional action, which is a psychological effect (at least in terms of the usual narrative metaphysics). But being frozen in place by an electric current doesn't seem to be a question of volition, but of preventing the muscles from responding to volition, physically.

"Takes no damage" also seems to be formulated strangely: It seems to say that if another person strikes at the entangle, they can't actually hit it, and their attack instead hits the entangled person and damages then. But the entangled person themself can still strike at the entangle, damage it, and eventually break out; and that's an odd way to describe electrical paralysis. It also seems as if the paralysis might go on for a long time! If I take 4d6 of Entangle, the effect has BODY 4 and Def 4; an entangled normal person with average STR would never be able to get through the Def and thus would stay paralyzed indefinitely. But it seems as if, if I touch someone, shock them, and cause their muscles to spasm, they ought to recover fairly quickly. I'm not sure how to represent that in terms of Entangle.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by whswhs

But it seems as if, if I touch someone, shock them, and cause their muscles to spasm, they ought to recover fairly quickly. I'm not sure how to represent that in terms of Entangle.

Is there a limitation for it to require constant contact? That would mimic a TASER - you grab them and paralyze them with an electric current, but once you let go the effect ends and they can recover in fairly short order. Or just give it a short duration but have the time not tick down until the user stops actively using the ability (you essentially just keep hitting the target again each round, restarting the duration).

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Is there a limitation for it to require constant contact? That would mimic a TASER - you grab them and paralyze them with an electric current, but once you let go the effect ends and they can recover in fairly short order. Or just give it a short duration but have the time not tick down until the user stops actively using the ability (you essentially just keep hitting the target again each round, restarting the duration).

I was thinking of doing the latter, but building it as a variant of Flash, which has the short duration built in. Six seconds of paralysis would take an average person completely out of action.

[whswhs]

In the course of thinking about this, I had a further look at Transform. It has you roll dice as for Killing Attack, counting the roll against BODY; but if you get up to twice the normal full BODY, instead of the target dying, they are changed into something else. And I sort of see the logic of that. But on the other hand, killing someone is essentially permanent; but Transform is written so that they will return to their normal form, either by "healing" the lost BODY, or by some special event such as a kiss from a princess or a session of abreactive hypnotherapy or something. Those don't seem to be on a par.

If you inflict normal full BODY with a Killing Attack, the target is dying, but they could be prevented from dying by being healed or treated medically. That seems sort of parallel to a Transform that can be undone by healing. And permanent change to a dead body seems akin to permanent change to a frog or a marble statue. So I'm thinking about having 1x BODY be sufficient for transformation, and 2x BODY for permanent transformation.

Not that that's a good fit to electric shock's paralyzing effects; healing BODY takes much too long for recovery from shock. But I can think of other applications for it.