Hero System ability design

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Oh, I'd forgotten about mind control based on Con, but it's not going to be very good unless the GM suspends active point limits -- "Do nothing" is around a +20 mind control effect, and Based on Con means it would go against PD or ED (probably ED), so against a fairly typical super target (say, Con 18, ED 22) you'd need a roll of 60 -- around a 50% chance with a 19d6 attack. A 19d6 EB (same 95 active points) probably oneshots that same target.

I've generally shifted 'based on Con' to be vs Power defense, at which point it's a credible but not great option.

Suppress Stun does work... but is not something you should allow anyone to bring into a game ever.

On the plus side, it wouldn't cost much - a -1 Limitation for Based on Con and another -1 for single effect. That would be 20 points for 12d. So it would be a very cheap option even if the GM strictly caps active points. Adding Armor Piercing might be a useful option. In general, Hero makes all or nothing incapacitating attacks expensive no matter how you do it.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Irish Wolf

Does the game still have the STUN-Only modifier for attacks? I haven't read them since 3rd Edition. If it does, you could try a 0-Range (Touch), STUN-Only EB to simulate the effect. Might not quite fit the bill (or the Bill), though...

My player said explicitly that she wanted an immobilizing attack so that she could question people, keeping them still but not making them unconscious. That really ought to be Entangle, but there doesn't seem to be a form of Entangle that lacks a physical manifestation that can be attacked.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by whswhs

My player said explicitly that she wanted an immobilizing attack so that she could question people, keeping them still but not making them unconscious. That really ought to be Entangle, but there doesn't seem to be a form of Entangle that lacks a physical manifestation that can be attacked.

Looking at Champions Complete, there is a Takes No Damage Advantage that can be taken on the Entangle. +1 means the Entangle can't be broken by outsiders at all, only the victim can break free, and only using his Strength. That might work.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Infornific

Looking at Champions Complete, there is a Takes No Damage Advantage that can be taken on the Entangle. +1 means the Entangle can't be broken by outsiders at all, only the victim can break free, and only using his Strength. That might work.

It's expensive, but, this is how it was done in Gummiβear's games. I'm trying to remember if there's a based on Ego modifier, because I remember that being done as well (it was a time-freeze effect).

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

It's expensive, but, this is how it was done in Gummiβear's games. I'm trying to remember if there's a based on Ego modifier, because I remember that being done as well (it was a time-freeze effect).

There was one in 5e (see based on ego combat value in the description of entangle). I don't have 6e. I remember ego entangles being abusive enough to mostly get banned, but YMMV.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

There was one in 5e (see based on ego combat value in the description of entangle). I don't have 6e. I remember ego entangles being abusive enough to mostly get banned, but YMMV.

This would be more a CON Entangle than an EGO Entangle, I think.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Anthony

There was one in 5e (see based on ego combat value in the description of entangle). I don't have 6e. I remember ego entangles being abusive enough to mostly get banned, but YMMV.

You are spot-on. It was a GM-approval power. And the character that had it was made for the player by the GM. So, yeah.

Originally Posted by whswhs

This would be more a CON Entangle than an EGO Entangle, I think.

Depending on the source of the paralysis, yeah.

[Infornific]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

It's expensive, but, this is how it was done in Gummiβear's games. I'm trying to remember if there's a based on Ego modifier, because I remember that being done as well (it was a time-freeze effect).

That's an option but not required. I assume the special effect is using electrical charges to lock up the target's muscles, so an Entangle that can be broken by Strength should work fine.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Infornific

That's an option but not required. I assume the special effect is using electrical charges to lock up the target's muscles, so an Entangle that can be broken by Strength should work fine.

I'm not sure that makes sense to me. Can you amplify how it would work, and what the rationale is?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I'm not sure that makes sense to me. Can you amplify how it would work, and what the rationale is?

You can get an entangle that's transparent to attack, but the target can still break out of it with strength.