Lost in Dreams II (OCC)

[ericthered]

What a half stage! Met aliens and demi-humans for the first time, rescued homeliners from their pods and from the church, Met Ink Thur, and learned some magic!

Yeah, I was excited when I rolled for you to go to Yrth. Interesting that you have spent most of your time with homeliners.

It seems the Ritual Magic version you are using does not require a core Thaumaturgy skill. Do the standard defaults of Colleges at -6 exist if Peter does take it?

Either that or I waived the prereq for Peter. Yes, I suppose you can take it if you find someone to teach it and it will give the defaults... If you've seen the spell.

I was worried about the meagery penalty, but I had not remembered there was a prerequisite penalty that was replacing that evenened things out. The lack of applicable talent is kinda rough tho. You're not a magery fan?

Magery 0 is fine and Peter has it/is substituting his much more robust general magic ability. Between "You can cast this magic" and "Detect", its pretty well covered.

I don't mind "Spell casting talent", I mind it as a prerequisite for casting more powerful spells.



So you can take a 10 point spell-casting talent, sure thing. It just doesn't satisfy prereqs or cap energy per turn or anything. And people on Yrth will call it "talent" or "aptitude", not "magery" or "power"


Hopefully that makes sense.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I have not tracked the days, I'd have to go back and review. I will do so at some point and update my sheet. We had a weird incomplete sleep followed by a day and a half march...

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Okay, Yirth

Banestorm arrival - Jan 30 https://forums.sjgames.com/showthrea...32#post2521232
Banestorm Day 2 https://forums.sjgames.com/showthrea...96#post2537096
Banestorm Day 3 https://forums.sjgames.com/showthrea...38#post2537838
Banestorm Day 4 https://forums.sjgames.com/showthrea...74#post2538974
Banestorm Day 5 https://forums.sjgames.com/showthrea...74#post2540074
Banestorm Day 6 - leaving town https://forums.sjgames.com/showthrea...77#post2541277

On day 6 we were leaving Minimasan and


So if few is 2 more days, meaning the travel of Day 6 and 7, then they arrived in the evening of day 7 which would be January 5th back home if I'm counting right.

Thanks. Lets call a "few" three more days.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Yeah, I was excited when I rolled for you to go to Yrth. Interesting that you have spent most of your time with homeliners.

They were the ones who could get him out if he couldn't do it himself! they were also the ones with somewhere to go.

Either that or I waived the prereq for Peter. Yes, I suppose you can take it if you find someone to teach it and it will give the defaults... If you've seen the spell.

Given the way he's described his study of the guts of magic and always comparing and integrating them, I was kind of already hoping to have a head start on that. Then he tried to broach the guts of magic in the lesson he had, to your frustration! Peter's always trying to look into the engineering of magic.

Magery 0 is fine and Peter has it/is substituting his much more robust general magic ability. Between "You can cast this magic" and "Detect", its pretty well covered.

I don't mind "Spell casting talent", I mind it as a prerequisite for casting more powerful spells.



So you can take a 10 point spell-casting talent, sure thing. It just doesn't satisfy prereqs or cap energy per turn or anything. And people on Yrth will call it "talent" or "aptitude", not "magery" or "power"


Hopefully that makes sense.

Makes sense! I just always kind of presumed there was Magery or another hidden Cosmic talent in there. Having talent speeds learning and grants disproportionate skill, which is how dreamers behave.

Spellcasting talents are generally by flavor... I think if Peter is going to have a talent we would need to go for a broader 15 point Cosmic Dreamer Talent to match the UB so it would be portable... But for this model, just buying flat skill is probably best for now. Looking at PU3 Talents, there are a few that include Thaumaturgy and Ritual Magic even in 5 point talents...

Spoiler:  

You had mentioned before the feeling that +3 energy gave more of a feeling of power than +1 skill... I disagree. +1 skill is a significant bit of whether your spell goes off at all or is resisted. A few more energy is pretty negligible. Not much point in getting one more spell off if it fails. And if that skill bonus makes the difference to a base skill of 15, reducing your energy costs, that can be a much bigger force multiplier to your energy.

Thanks. Lets call a "few" three more days.

then they arrived in the evening of day 8 and Peter will wake up after his meeting with Ink Thur on the morning of day 9 on Yrth which would be January 7th back home. They made very good time!

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Spellcasting talents are generally by flavor... I think if Peter is going to have a talent we would need to go for a broader 15 point Cosmic Dreamer Talent to match the UB so it would be portable... But for this model, just buying flat skill is probably best for now. Looking at PU3 Talents, there are a few that include Thaumaturgy and Ritual Magic even in 5 point talents...

Oh, there's the solution... I'll add "Reliable 4, +20%" to the 50 point unusual background, making it so he can "Use any magic at +4"

:)

[TGLS]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Oh, there's the solution... I'll add "Reliable 4, +20%" to the 50 point unusual background, making it so he can "Use any magic at +4"

:)

Soon: "I've realized I made a mistake, the unusual background was missing a zero, and is now priced at 500 points."

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

They were the ones who could get him out if he couldn't do it himself! they were also the ones with somewhere to go.

They certainly had a plan, compared to most of the others.

Given the way he's described his study of the guts of magic and always comparing and integrating them, I was kind of already hoping to have a head start on that. Then he tried to broach the guts of magic in the lesson he had, to your frustration! Peter's always trying to look into the engineering of magic.

He can pick it up quite quickly from a teacher: the big deal here is the number of defaults it unlocks.

Makes sense! I just always kind of presumed there was Magery or another hidden Cosmic talent in there. Having talent speeds learning and grants disproportionate skill, which is how dreamers behave.

That makes sense. I always forget talent is supposed to increase the speed of learning. Probably because It doesn't get used that way too often in games. People use it to boost their core competency skills, and its so often either not present or its maxed out, and most games (other than this one or that one time I stuck people on 8 month interstellar voyages) don't do much in the way of in-game learning.

Two levels of talent for dreamers would make sense, giving good defaults on new magic skills and shifting hard skills into easy ones.

Spellcasting talents are generally by flavor... I think if Peter is going to have a talent we would need to go for a broader 15 point Cosmic Dreamer Talent to match the UB so it would be portable... But for this model, just buying flat skill is probably best for now. Looking at PU3 Talents, there are a few that include Thaumaturgy and Ritual Magic even in 5 point talents...

After the first 24 points in Thaumaturgy, its essentially a four point talent.



I favor a 10-point talent for all magic in this style, but let me know what you want.

Spoiler:  

You had mentioned before the feeling that +3 energy gave more of a feeling of power than +1 skill... I disagree. +1 skill is a significant bit of whether your spell goes off at all or is resisted. A few more energy is pretty negligible. Not much point in getting one more spell off if it fails. And if that skill bonus makes the difference to a base skill of 15, reducing your energy costs, that can be a much bigger force multiplier to your energy.

ahh, yes, the magic skill 15 breakpoint. Does it feel like power without that?

then they arrived in the evening of day 8 and Peter will wake up after his meeting with Ink Thur on the morning of day 9 on Yrth which would be January 7th back home. They made very good time!

Its kind of funny just how fast people can walk along a road if they have good support and are used to it. Its a long ways, yes, and its work, yes, but a few weeks of walking will take you a LONG ways. People used to walk from the missisippi river to the pacific just over the summer.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by ericthered

He can pick it up quite quickly from a teacher: the big deal here is the number of defaults it unlocks.

What's kind of funny is I've been angling for him to take it for multiple reasons for a very long time.

That makes sense. I always forget talent is supposed to increase the speed of learning. Probably because It doesn't get used that way too often in games. People use it to boost their core competency skills, and its so often either not present or its maxed out, and most games (other than this one or that one time I stuck people on 8 month interstellar voyages) don't do much in the way of in-game learning.

Peter keeps it pretty fast paced. His time use based learning has been limited to hiking (so much hiking) and survival. With magic, he gets a far superior "Montage-Based" learning speed for the first point (Or half point for Yaka, but there were a half dozen!)

Two levels of talent for dreamers would make sense, giving good defaults on new magic skills and shifting hard skills into easy ones.

It does make sense. The lack of a skill bonus basic skill makes it feel like the dreamer is behind the curve learning magic in a place rather than ahead of it when it comes to skill and aptitude. They are way ahead in picking up that first point tho, obviously.

If you're cracking into the Dreamer template for updates, be sure to include the Energy Reserve. It's not actually listed on there!

After the first 24 points in Thaumaturgy, its essentially a four point talent.

Totally valid! Now to learn it!

I favor a 10-point talent for all magic in this style, but let me know what you want.

I don't think Peter should have any special aptitude in the Yrth Ritual Magic over that of other worlds.

ahh, yes, the magic skill 15 breakpoint. Does it feel like power without that?

No it does not. If the spell has maintenance of 2, you have to get that bad boy up to 20 to maintain for free, and 21 to halve casting time. You need a high base skill if you're going to play a GURPS Basic Magic user with All The Powah!

[the_matrix_walker]

On Peter's Martial training...

He has had some instruction from a number of sources, especially the martian commandos and yaka instructor with the blade.

Peter has 1 point in Brawling, (which really doesn't do anything, strangely) I'd like to flip that to Karate and bring that up to DX (or maybe DX+1), and I'd like to move his point in Knife to take Weapon Adaptation, Knife to Karate, so that his knife use is tied to the karate skill, and call that his "Yaka Blade Art".

So Replacing
Brawling @DX [1]
Knife @DX [1]

With
Karate @DX [4]
"Yaka Blade Art" - Weapon Adaptation: Knife to Karate [1]

And would Karate at DX+1 be okay if I wanted to devote that many points at once?

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

What's kind of funny is I've been angling for him to take it for multiple reasons for a very long time.

Most of the magic he's seen so far has been very narrow. extrapolating all magic from that seems a little shaky. Yrth has enough magic and people studying that it makes sense to learn it. This won't get rid of all familiarity issues though.

Peter keeps it pretty fast paced. His time use based learning has been limited to hiking (so much hiking) and survival. With magic, he gets a far superior "Montage-Based" learning speed for the first point (Or half point for Yaka, but there were a half dozen!)

Yeah, I've tried to make that first point pretty easy, and to be generous with points (at least generous for me). But Peter is, as you say "pretty fast paced".

It does make sense. The lack of a skill bonus basic skill makes it feel like the dreamer is behind the curve learning magic in a place rather than ahead of it when it comes to skill and aptitude. They are way ahead in picking up that first point tho, obviously.

Hmmmm.

If you're cracking into the Dreamer template for updates, be sure to include the Energy Reserve. It's not actually listed on there!

For now I think that's Peter specific, since he keeps running into FP powered magic. A reference of common "conversions" on the 50 point advantage isn't a bad idea though.

I don't think Peter should have any special aptitude in the Yrth Ritual Magic over that of other worlds.

That makes sense. Now I'm considering if a 15 point talent for all magic is worth it (15 point talents almost never are) or if a 10 point talent for all magic is appropriate. Maybe just for casting it? (as opposed to say, aiming it)

No it does not. If the spell has maintenance of 2, you have to get that bad boy up to 20 to maintain for free, and 21 to halve casting time. You need a high base skill if you're going to play a GURPS Basic Magic user with All The Powah!

Yeah, that magic 15 breakpoint is kind of weird.

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

On Peter's Martial training...

He has had some instruction from a number of sources, especially the martian commandos and yaka instructor with the blade.

Peter has 1 point in Brawling, (which really doesn't do anything, strangely) I'd like to flip that to Karate and bring that up to DX (or maybe DX+1), and I'd like to move his point in Knife to take Weapon Adaptation, Knife to Karate, so that his knife use is tied to the karate skill, and call that his "Yaka Blade Art".

So Replacing
Brawling @DX [1]
Knife @DX [1]

With
Karate @DX [4]
"Yaka Blade Art" - Weapon Adaptation: Knife to Karate [1]

And would Karate at DX+1 be okay if I wanted to devote that many points at once?

All of those are fine point wise: converting Brawling to Karate is fine, spending four points on Karate at once is fine, and the weapon adaptation is fine in general. The question is if they can be justified with the instruction he has.

The Yaka instruction doesn't teach Karate. Its all very fencing style, with a small argument that this skill should be force sword. Rajat on the other hand knows karate for sure. He's been showing you stuff with a blade, but you've also been using a knife* for a good portion of the journey. Rajat has also had more time to train you, I think.

So I think its good, but give credit where credit is due: Peter learned this from Rajat.



*was that a knife? I know you had a blade of some sort.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Most of the magic he's seen so far has been very narrow. extrapolating all magic from that seems a little shaky. Yrth has enough magic and people studying that it makes sense to learn it. This won't get rid of all familiarity issues though.

Makes sense. I've been hoping Peter could have enough natural talent to start to teach himself based on his samplings for some time, to help it all come together.

For now I think that's Peter specific, since he keeps running into FP powered magic. A reference of common "conversions" on the 50 point advantage isn't a bad idea though.

I'm all for good reference materials!

That makes sense. Now I'm considering if a 15 point talent for all magic is worth it (15 point talents almost never are) or if a 10 point talent for all magic is appropriate. Maybe just for casting it? (as opposed to say, aiming it)

Considering IQ! is [10], It does make 15 point talents hard to justify.

but I get the impression they would have the same affinity for any esoteric supernatural adjacent thing they might encounter. that's pretty clearly a 15 point Cosmic Esoteric Talent.

But you're free to set it as a campaign switch however you like.

Yeah, that magic 15 breakpoint is kind of weird.

You had to be dedicated to being a wizard to hit it with the standard 100 point starting character of the time the system was written. It works well based on the assumptions of the original GURPS Fantasy.

All of those are fine point wise: converting Brawling to Karate is fine, spending four points on Karate at once is fine, and the weapon adaptation is fine in general. The question is if they can be justified with the instruction he has.

The Yaka instruction doesn't teach Karate. Its all very fencing style, with a small argument that this skill should be force sword. Rajat on the other hand knows karate for sure. He's been showing you stuff with a blade, but you've also been using a knife* for a good portion of the journey. Rajat has also had more time to train you, I think.

So I think its good, but give credit where credit is due: Peter learned this from Rajat.

Gotcha. I was thinking of putting it all together and maximizing martian color, but I stand corrected!

*was that a knife? I know you had a blade of some sort.

He first had a machete, then had a knife most of the time, and Rajat got him a Rapier he trained with as well in the last leg.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

"I'm not much of a 'list-guy'... Who's the best? I'm more a 'go-out-and-get-him-guy'. If by some miracle I could get them to take on a student, who would that be, and where can I find them?

Why does this feel like a request for "Sure, there's a guy, but he has deep plot related issues and should be colorful enough to be returned to again and again?"

Not complaining, just struck by it. Also, Serendipity is a thing.