New Reality Seeds

[Michele]

Originally Posted by malloyd

I always recommend avoiding *any* sort of international conflicts on Homeline, because they inevitably draw attention to the total lack of logic of Homeline politics. If Homeline governments can have differences (about crosstime policy anyway) remotely approaching significant enough to do political stories about, Infinity makes no sense at all. Those same governments would never have stood for its creation, let alone allow it anything like the authority it has to to make the other stories work.

I agree, but then again there are hints about a secret the top-level decision-makers of both Infinity and national governments are aware of, while we are not.

[Kymage]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

This is specifically addressed. IW43, they are still in it. I'd recommend the whole France section on that page to anyone interested in this line of thinking.

Regarding France's policy toward alternate Frances: They are supportive of alternate Frances even when it's unpopular or even dangerous. They're resistant to attempts to target the French government of Bonaparte-4, even though there's evidence of Centrum infiltration (IW114). Their cross-time special forces division has carried out the second-most interventions of any country, after Russia. So what's being discussed here definitely isn't totally out there.

IIRC, I don't have the book here in front of me, at one point there was almost an armed confrontation with US Cross time Special Forces over a French intervention in an alternate South Carolina?

[YankeeGamer]

Whatever THE SECRET (all caps to distinguish it from The Secret of crosstime travel) is that resulted in Infinity getting its widespread reach must be truly frightening to the major powers.
Homeline politics are restrained by that--for now.

But what happens if whatever gives Infinity its hold over the nations of the world doesn't hold. Either other nations--or even one nation--think that they have an answer to THE SECRET, or that Infinity doesn't have an answer, or that Van Zandt was running a colossal bluff, no mater if he really was.

In short, Infinity's control is eroding. Can Infinity come down from controlling everything gradually?

Does the US Supreme Court order a Ma Bell style breakup--and if so, does Infinity comply?

There's room for a lot of interesting things here--and some things HAVE to keep going, mostly along the lines of keeping cross dimentional threats under control. A Pseudo civil war doesn't mean that Reich-5 can be left alone.

[Michele]

Originally Posted by YankeeGamer

...or that Van Zandt was running a colossal bluff, no mater if he really was.

I'm not sure that would stand. In the first place, the world's rulers, especially some of them, would have surely demanded Van Zandt to show where the beef was. And if he managed to convince them, they must have seen something convincing.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Michele

I'm not sure that would stand. In the first place, the world's rulers, especially some of them, would have surely demanded Van Zandt to show where the beef was. And if he managed to convince them, they must have seen something convincing.

Not necessarily. This is after all a setting with all kinds of magic (and magic like stuff given other labels like psionics), at least some of which Van Zandt discovered quite early. Perhaps he simply mind controlled the key leaders. Should one of them suddenly get replaced by somebody not controlled, or even if someone's intelligence service who didn't suspect anything yet but was just a bit worried about this increasingly known threat started working on a mind control defense project without bringing it to the attention of said leader enough for it to be countermanded....

If you *want* to do the Homeline explodes into anti-Infinity war but this doesn't result in whatever horror bad enough to convince its governments to bow to Infinity getting out, this seems like a pretty workable approach.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Michele

In the first place, the world's rulers, especially some of them, would have surely demanded Van Zandt to show where the beef was. And if he managed to convince them, they must have seen something convincing.

I had to come up with an answer to that to be able to reach the conclusion of my Infinite Cabal campaign. Here it is: this is absolutely not canon for the setting in general.

Van Zandt had formed the idea that the universe was alive and self-willed in some way. This is true in Infinite Cabal, because it has a demiurge in control of the universe, although van Zandt was some way from the truth of the matter. I had quite a few paths to that insight outlined, but the PCs ended up being told it by Athena, which is one of the easier ways. Of course, she told the PCs a version that they'd readily take in and which would incline them towards an outcome that suited her, and the other Olympians.

Van Zandt had negotiated with an entity that was one of the fragments of the demiurge's personality (there were several). That being was happy to have a leading-edge world misled about the nature of the universe.

Because of his agreement, he was able to demonstrate reality being altered at his command at the UN, and to claim that he had a contract with the mind of the universe. It's not quite clear to what degree he was bluffing, as opposed to not understanding what he really had.

Some of the witnesses thought he'd proved the Simulation Hypothesis. This seems to have been a product of their inadequate background in such matters, plus a certain amount of ambiguity.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by Kymage

IIRC, I don't have the book here in front of me, at one point there was almost an armed confrontation with US Cross time Special Forces over a French intervention in an alternate South Carolina?

Yes, same page/article on Homeline France, "An attempt by the Légion [d'Outretemps] to overthrow the government of South Carolina on Britannica-1 almost led to outright conflict between French and U.S. special forces."

On Britannica-1, the American colonies splintered after independence to become a zone of proxy wars between the European powers. A Pax Britannica is coming to be, which does beg the question what Homeline France and U.S. are doing there.


There is a lot to question in what people & nations do in Homeline, from agreeing to Infinity controlling parachronics thanks to THE SECRET - even if world leaders agreed, would their people? - to such things as vacation trips to Dixie's Confederacy (pretty much saying that you're a racist - and why would Infinity agree to such trips?).

A lot of it comes from wanting to create a good adventure world. Trips to the CSA mean I-Cops can track down Homeline racists trying to leak The Secret on Dixie. Homeline nations having active, competing parachronic policies makes for crosstime spy adventures.

And that GURPS Infinite Worlds was published 15 years ago. Some things weren't anticipated, like Brexit. And there are things that matter now that weren't such headline issues back then - Would Infinity worry about crosstime LGBTQ rights? Doesn't all that oil imported from other worlds contribute to climate change on Homeline?


Of course, GURPS could address/resolve these issues by creating a NEW Infinity Worlds...

[Apollonian]

Originally Posted by fchase8

And that GURPS Infinite Worlds was published 15 years ago. Some things weren't anticipated, like Brexit. And there are things that matter now that weren't such headline issues back then - Would Infinity worry about crosstime LGBTQ rights? Doesn't all that oil imported from other worlds contribute to climate change on Homeline?.

The first two are pretty easily covered by Homeline being a different timeline. The last, I've sometimes wondered about, but maybe discovering a few ecological disaster timelines motivated people to actually do something about it - and they have access to better power tech from certain worlds. I bet Homeline uses a lot more nuclear power than we do, for example, since waste disposal is easy peasy.

[fchase8]

Originally Posted by Apollonian

The first two are pretty easily covered by Homeline being a different timeline. The last, I've sometimes wondered about, but maybe discovering a few ecological disaster timelines motivated people to actually do something about it - and they have access to better power tech from certain worlds. I bet Homeline uses a lot more nuclear power than we do, for example, since waste disposal is easy peasy.

I have thought that the discovery of other worlds, almost all in the past, has slowed the pace of social change on Homeline.


Homeline does likely use more nuclear power (presumably no Fukushima disaster there, either). And there are electric cars, thanks to the design 'imported' (i.e., stolen) from I think Lenin-3.

Could Homeline have fusion power? It would seem next on the tech list, but the worlds that have it are dangerous - Shikaku-Mon, Reich-5, Caliph. Maybe Bonaparte-5?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by fchase8

I have thought that the discovery of other worlds, almost all in the past, has slowed the pace of social change on Homeline.


Homeline does likely use more nuclear power (presumably no Fukushima disaster there, either). And there are electric cars, thanks to the design 'imported' (i.e., stolen) from I think Lenin-3.

Could Homeline have fusion power? It would seem next on the tech list, but the worlds that have it are dangerous - Shikaku-Mon, Reich-5, Caliph. Maybe Bonaparte-5?

It's not that they don't spy on those worlds. They're just far more careful.