Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-20-2012, 07:12 PM   #21
Sindri
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Default Re: Duelling in Spaaaaaaace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Carnifex View Post
I'd argue that dueling never went all the way away, anyway. It's just today (in the U.S. at least), the weapons of choice are lawyers and PR flaks.

The shifts that reduced dueling aren't technological,they're social: a feeling that dueling is "might makes right", that non-combatants are entitled to have their cases heard, the rise of the criminal and civil justice systems, expanded police powers and capabilities, the spread of egalitarianism and the fracturing of 'society', a reduced expectation that the members of high society are necessarily trained combatants, and so on...
Well many those shifts are more against trials by combat than duels of honour but they are related of course. Other reasons for duelling's disappearance include a society's desire to keep it's members alive, a change in views about honour, and cases where the custom of duelling was abused.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Carnifex View Post
Which is why the examples from my space campaign are almost all military. Dueling is a way of showing off military prowess, and that's more valued in militarized cultures. Even today, U.S. Marines have a reputation for fistfights as a means of resolving disputes, an activity that isn't condoned by the the chain of command, but not quite entirely condemned, either. (One PFC my acquaintance was told off the record by his master sergeant that worse than being involved in a bar fight with rangers was being involved in a bar fight with rangers and losing. But both were better than failing to defend the honor of the USMC.)
As you said above it's important that the people duelling will be capable combatants.
Sindri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 08:26 PM   #22
Captain-Captain
 
Captain-Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Duelling in Spaaaaaaace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
Yeah that was the kind of thing I was imagining



Slugthrowers in zero g are quite useful. Note that it's in spaaaaaaace! not in space. Space doesn't necessarily mean zero g and duelling with slugthrowers isn't the only or even the default means of duelling.

Err how did technological improvements make duelling obsolete? Duelling isn't obsolete in any technical sense, society just changed it's opinion in regard to it.
It's the absence of resistance to recoil from the shot. :o
__________________
...().0...0()
.../..........\
-/......O.....\-
...VVVVVVV
..^^^^^^^

A clock running two hours slow has the correct time zero times a day.
Captain-Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 08:32 PM   #23
Captain-Captain
 
Captain-Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Duelling in Spaaaaaaace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
Ahh I see. Like I said above though, pistol duels are by no means the only kind of duel. If people want to duel then they will use appropriate weapons and restrictions to bring the lethality to the desired level.
With one shot pistols, missing is relatively easy. Not so much with Uzis at ten paces.

More to thepoint we've matured as civilizations go and tech improvements have fueled that maturing.
__________________
...().0...0()
.../..........\
-/......O.....\-
...VVVVVVV
..^^^^^^^

A clock running two hours slow has the correct time zero times a day.
Captain-Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2012, 08:40 PM   #24
Sindri
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Default Re: Duelling in Spaaaaaaace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain-Captain View Post
It's the absence of resistance to recoil from the shot. :o
That would be why they are useful. Plus it's not like your aim being thrown off after the first shot because you haven't positioned your pistol to push you straight back is really relevant to a duel. If you are engaging in a pistol duel with multiple shots it reduces accuracy sure... but that's not necessarily bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain-Captain View Post
With one shot pistols, missing is relatively easy. Not so much with Uzis at ten paces.

More to thepoint we've matured as civilizations go and tech improvements have fueled that maturing.
So don't use uzis at ten paces without any defences. That would be not using appropriate weapons and restrictions.

As to whether tech improvements have fueled nebulous maturation of civilizations that has reduced societal acceptance of duelling I'm skeptical. If necessary simply assume that the civilization in question has dematured while getting cooler toys.
Sindri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 10:17 AM   #25
jason taylor
 
jason taylor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Default Re: Duelling in Spaaaaaaace!

One version known in-I think-New Guinea is somewhere between a tourney and a duel. At slaughtertime there are regular interclan disputes over livestock that lead to insults (though one wonders if they are taken seriously or just part of the fun). As a result the young men of the clan line up and shoot arrows at each other. There is some handicap, I forget, what that prevents this causing to much injury, like fighting at extreme range or using blunt arrows or something. Elders wait behind to call the matter off if things are getting to hot. The affair is heavily wagered and the victorious clan comes off with extra pigs that year.

This is probably closer to a tourney than a duel as several participate. But it is nominally a grudge match and takes place at an arranged time and place.

Another example which is definitely a Code Duello is found among the "Fierce People" of the Amazon. There is an elaborate series of types of duels. Most of them seem to be centered around acquiring mates. This example may be a little to exotic for sci fi which usually has the viewpoint society be one the reader/viewer/player can identify with.

While rare among English speaking peoples, it has been known on the Continent to have duels on horseback with sabers. They had one like that in "The Duelists".

Just some thoughts.
__________________
"The navy could probably win a war without coffee but would prefer not to try"-Samuel Eliot Morrison
jason taylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 06:23 PM   #26
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Duelling in Spaaaaaaace!

Dueling isn't something I considered for my Harpyias setting (which is Space Opera), and doesn't really fit any of the major powers, but there could certainly be some minor cultures that use it. A moderately common melee weapon in the setting is a retractable vibrokatar with a built-in shock effect (comparable to the zap gloves from UT), which is itself often built into armor. Using such, along with armor, is likely for a duel - you basically try to penetrate each other's armor to deliver the electric shock. For most duels, the weapons would be set to simply shock and incapacitate the enemy, but for more serious duels the "kill" setting would be used.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2020, 09:10 AM   #27
RyanW
 
RyanW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Default Re: Duelling in Spaaaaaaace!

The dead walk among us! (thread from 2012)

I would probably have ulta-tech duels normally settled with less lethal means - shock batons, for example. A fight that causes serious injury is likely seen as an exercise in stubbornness (if caused by the loser's refusal to accept an honorable defeat) or brutality (if caused by the winner taking things too far). In addition, I - and by extension, my worlds - generally consider duels a final resort, only acceptable after all other attempts at redress have failed. If you refuse to back down purely because you know you will win the duel, you could be held for assault or murder, even if you were the one challenged.
__________________
RyanW
Gondor has no king. Gondor needs no king. Gondor doesn't have to show you any stinking king.
RyanW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2020, 10:51 AM   #28
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
Default Re: Duelling in Spaaaaaaace!

Duels in Europe were connected to the lack of professional crime investigation or forensic science: if there are very important questions where the only way to decide is to choose who to trust, you let God decide (and people noticed that He made some pretty odd decisions). So to get duelling in an ultratech setting, you probably want to undermine trusted police forces and forensic science and surveillance (this can be within a subculture).
__________________
"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper
Polydamas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2020, 12:41 PM   #29
RyanW
 
RyanW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Default Re: Duelling in Spaaaaaaace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
Duels in Europe were connected to the lack of professional crime investigation or forensic science: if there are very important questions where the only way to decide is to choose who to trust, you let God decide (and people noticed that He made some pretty odd decisions). So to get duelling in an ultratech setting, you probably want to undermine trusted police forces and forensic science and surveillance (this can be within a subculture).
Or a portion of the social order that the law mostly leaves to see to their own affairs. Extrajudicial settlement of disputes among an elite class that is largely above the law.
__________________
RyanW
Gondor has no king. Gondor needs no king. Gondor doesn't have to show you any stinking king.
RyanW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2020, 01:53 PM   #30
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Duelling in Spaaaaaaace!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
Or a portion of the social order that the law mostly leaves to see to their own affairs. Extrajudicial settlement of disputes among an elite class that is largely above the law.
Doesn't even have to be an elite class; normal folks get into fistfights (and worse) over all manner of things, so there could be incentive to normalize resolving such disputes with duels to help calm things down a bit (being able to challenge someone to a duel might make the offended party less inclined to simply gun the offender down then and there).

I'm currently debating, thanks to this thread, if ranged duels might be a thing in Harpyias (melee duels using the previously-mentioned electro-vibrokatars I've decided are popular in some minor polities). The same technology used to make lethal blasters can also make less-lethal ones (in fact, the less-lethal ones came first, and the lethal variant is a more advanced design). Such weapons aren't entirely safe, of course - a likely dueling pistol would weigh 2 lb, have RoF 1, and deal 1d-2 cr with triple knockback, with a follow-up HT-1 affliction (causes the same knockdown/stunning effect as a Major Wound). If effectively being punched and getting shoved around by being struck is deemed too dangerous, the affliction has AD (5) against metal, so metal armor of some flavor could be worn for protection. These "ion blasters" (totally stolen from Star Wars, but so are the blasters, honestly) are also extremely short-ranged, which would work just fine for a duel. Do note if such a weapon were instead a typical blaster, it would deal 9d burn with a 2d-1 cr ex follow-up, which would indeed be rather lethal.
__________________
GURPS Overhaul
Varyon is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
brainstorm, duel, martial arts, space, ultra-tech

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.