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Old 12-07-2020, 12:15 PM   #21
Anthony
 
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Default Re: closest Space/Ultratech equiv to the giant power armors used by Marines in Starcr

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
They weren't exactly naked though, so we might handwave this as these scientists all having super-durable armor because they deal with volatile chemicals / high heat / etc.
All the SC1 critters have 60 hp, though they're all fairly large (would have 20-30 hp in GURPS).
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Old 12-07-2020, 12:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: closest Space/Ultratech equiv to the giant power armors used by Marines in Starcr

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
If you've done the original Starcraft missions, there are a bunch that have either civilians or random animals, and they aren't that much less durable than combat units, so starcraft armor really isn't terribly good.
A while back, I was musing over making a Starcraft campaign (set well after the events of Starcraft II), and decided the ideal approach was to reconsider the Marine units as only using mundane, "dumb" armor, with power armor only being used relatively rarely (being more akin to armored cavalry than infantry), as this also has the side benefit of giving letting Zerg and Protoss units (Zerglings and Zealots, respectively) have less-ridiculous damage outputs to be able to threaten Terrans. Oh, and it allows Ghosts/Specters to be less obvious ("Oh, look, a human combatant who isn't walking around inside a tank - must be a Ghost").
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Old 12-07-2020, 01:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: closest Space/Ultratech equiv to the giant power armors used by Marines in Starcr

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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
A while back, I was musing over making a Starcraft campaign (set well after the events of Starcraft II), and decided the ideal approach was to reconsider the Marine units as only using mundane, "dumb" armor, with power armor only being used relatively rarely (being more akin to armored cavalry than infantry), as this also has the side benefit of giving letting Zerg and Protoss units (Zerglings and Zealots, respectively) have less-ridiculous damage outputs to be able to threaten Terrans. Oh, and it allows Ghosts/Specters to be less obvious ("Oh, look, a human combatant who isn't walking around inside a tank - must be a Ghost").
There's cinematics with unarmored people walking around, such as the jeep ambush, the demo person in the demolition of the Amerigo, and blowing up protoss illusions. The suits in the Amerigo cinematic do look powered, but possibly they're environment suits, not really armor.

There isn't really much heavy armor in the Starcraft setting, the stuff they call 'tanks' are mobile howitzers.
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Old 12-07-2020, 01:20 PM   #24
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Default Re: closest Space/Ultratech equiv to the giant power armors used by Marines in Starcr

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Originally Posted by Rolando View Post
Starcraft ripoffed Starship Trooper, not WH40k. I think it deserve some respect :)
How? It puts troops in bulky armor, yes, but they're nothing like the Mobile Infantry. (Very little in any game I can think of is, really, between the armament and the extreme mobility.) They're not much like the 40k Space Marines either in terms of lore, but in terms of being ridiculously bulky armor-dudes with huge rifles they're right on.

Also, while zerg could be taken as the SST 'bugs' (though more the cinematic misrepresentation than the original thing) instead of 40k Tyrannids, the Protoss have no such referent but are dead ringers for the Eldar.

(Of course, the thing about all these GW/Blizzard 'ripoffs' is that they replicate aesthetics and then pair them with totally different lore. Terran marines are expendable brainwashed convicts, not immortal engineered superhumans. The protoss homeworld is just fine. The Zerg aren't from outside the galaxy. Chaos isn't around at all. And back in Warcraft, the orcs are extradimensional invaders!)
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Old 12-07-2020, 01:29 PM   #25
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: closest Space/Ultratech equiv to the giant power armors used by Marines in Starcr

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
How? It puts troops in bulky armor, yes, but they're nothing like the Mobile Infantry. (Very little in any game I can think of is, really, between the armament and the extreme mobility.) s!)
FGU's Space Opera was actually fairly heavy into Starship Troopers emulation. The powered armor did the leaping and had Y-racks to sow explosive confusion on their flanks as they leapt. Portabel missiel alunchers with nuclear warheads too.

The UT TL10 Heavy Battlesuits have some of the right features. Particularly with the Scout and Command versions.
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Old 12-07-2020, 02:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: closest Space/Ultratech equiv to the giant power armors used by Marines in Starcr

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
All the SC1 critters have 60 hp, though they're all fairly large (would have 20-30 hp in GURPS).
*reads up on them more*
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Repeatedly clicking on a critter in single player mode (several times) causes it to explode in a mushroom cloud as if it had been hit by a nuke, but the explosion does no damage.
I feel like a failure of a Blizzard-player for never actually finding this out via playtest, because I otherwise do habitually click on units over and over just to see if they'll give different canned responses (as they've done since WC2) but I guess I never tried that on a critter.

They were only ever stuff I would just kill when bored to pass the time. Reading about some of their tactical uses (putting parasites inside them to spy on others, mind-controlling them to block narrow passages) actually makes me feel very low-IQ for never experimenting with how to interact with them more. The only thing I might've done is used them to spawn Broodlings.

Custom SC maps would actually be much much cooler if you filled them full of critters or could code critters to spawn at certain places, where killing them would be necessary to access certain areas at max speeds without needing to navigate around them.

it's a factor I bet a lot overlook when designing custom maps. You could definitely slow down "zerg rush" tactics by putting hordes of critters in between base spawn locations.

Kinda similar to doing a "labyrinth design" connecting them to slow ground traffic except it's not a permanent impede to ground traffic, it can be stopped, but like the new "there's rocks in the way" feature introduced in SC2 it requires active efforts by one side or the other.

Especially troublesome since you don't auto-attack critters (they function like allies instead of enemies) so your units will try to walk around them unless you give specific orders to click on an individual critter (one at a time!)

There should prob be some option in SC to designate critters as an enemy group instead of an ally, and to perhaps prioritize certain enemy groups over others, like you would attack a critter if there's no targets around, but leave them to last if enemy was attacking.

Critters could also run away more if attacked (maybe at high speed ) so you could herd them towards enemy bases as parasite-carrying spies or cannon fodder even if you lacked the resources to mind control them.

Super-mysterious how Bengalaas and Kakarus disappear in a protoss teleport flash... actually seems like all but one do that. Maybe protoss are trying to save most of the animals so they don't actually die?
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Old 12-07-2020, 03:35 PM   #27
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Default Re: closest Space/Ultratech equiv to the giant power armors used by Marines in Starcr

A good source for general "How Powered Armor Works" stuff is CJ Cherryh's Rimrunners in her Union/Alliance/Chanur series.

The Marine armor there is in the "not that much larger than people" category, which it needs to be since it is mostly used for boarding or defending ships and space stations. There is a section where the protagonist is given the job of repairing two captured suits and then fitting them and teaching an officer how to use it. So you get a fair amount of detail about how they work and capabilities.
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Old 12-07-2020, 05:21 PM   #28
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Default Re: closest Space/Ultratech equiv to the giant power armors used by Marines in Starcr

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
If you've done the original Starcraft missions, there are a bunch that have either civilians or random animals, and they aren't that much less durable than combat units, so starcraft armor really isn't terribly good.
I never playerd Starcraft but reading the wiki linked earlier in this thread, it seems even normal infantry guns (needle guns) can penetrate these power armors so it really doesn't seem like they're made to be man-like tanks but a weapon platform like Fallout's.
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Old 12-07-2020, 05:36 PM   #29
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Default Re: closest Space/Ultratech equiv to the giant power armors used by Marines in Starcr

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Originally Posted by Sorenant View Post
I never playerd Starcraft but reading the wiki linked earlier in this thread, it seems even normal infantry guns (needle guns) can penetrate these power armors so it really doesn't seem like they're made to be man-like tanks but a weapon platform like Fallout's.
Starcraft does have a concept of damage resistance, but it's very low (marines have 0-3 DR based on upgrade level and 40 hp; they do 6-9 damage based on upgrade level. The heaviest armor in SC1 is a max upgrade Protoss carrier with 7 armor, in SC2 it is a max upgrade Ultralisk with 7 armor).
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Old 12-08-2020, 06:42 AM   #30
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Default Re: closest Space/Ultratech equiv to the giant power armors used by Marines in Starcr

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
How? It puts troops in bulky armor, yes, but they're nothing like the Mobile Infantry. (Very little in any game I can think of is, really, between the armament and the extreme mobility.) They're not much like the 40k Space Marines either in terms of lore, but in terms of being ridiculously bulky armor-dudes with huge rifles they're right on.

Also, while zerg could be taken as the SST 'bugs' (though more the cinematic misrepresentation than the original thing) instead of 40k Tyrannids, the Protoss have no such referent but are dead ringers for the Eldar.

(Of course, the thing about all these GW/Blizzard 'ripoffs' is that they replicate aesthetics and then pair them with totally different lore. Terran marines are expendable brainwashed convicts, not immortal engineered superhumans. The protoss homeworld is just fine. The Zerg aren't from outside the galaxy. Chaos isn't around at all. And back in Warcraft, the orcs are extradimensional invaders!)
At some point, it stops being ripping off and becomes exploring, expanding, or subverting. Truly new and simple ideas that work are rare and precious, but when combined with each other they can appear new and fresh, and indeed tell very different stories.
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