Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-12-2021, 09:32 AM   #1
JulianLW
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default Going Berserk on your friends?

You get a self-control roll to snap out of a Berserk state when all your foes are down. A friend can make a Leadership roll to help you snap out of it. Does having a Sense of Duty to Companions help? How much?

What kind of bonus to a self-control roll to not attack a friend would a Berserker get for having a Sense of Duty to that person?

It's easy for me to imagine a dog that would easily go Berserk on someone who attacked his owner (i.e. a low self-control number) - and would be uncontrollable by that owner - but who would never attack the owner.

As an additional question: what kind of limitation on the disadvantage do you think it would it be to never harm someone unintentionally? One person? A group of people?

My guess is that, for one person, "Never harms [Person]" or "Never harmed by [Berserker]" could be a Perk, but that a guarantee about not harming a group of people (especially, like, a shifting group like an adventuring party) would be a pretty hefty limitation.
JulianLW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2021, 09:50 AM   #2
WingedKagouti
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Default Re: Going Berserk on your friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
What kind of bonus to a self-control roll to not attack a friend would a Berserker get for having a Sense of Duty to that person?
Basic doesn't offer any bonus for this scenario, but my first reaction is to say that at the very least the ones SoD applies to get attacked last. I'd also require taking the self-control rolls when the only potential targets left are covered by a SoD in case the player goes "I'm so out of control I don't try to calm down" or something similar.
WingedKagouti is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2021, 10:50 AM   #3
Rolando
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama
Default Re: Going Berserk on your friends?

those are disadvantages, not advantages.

A higher purpose "be the best friend" or "keep my people safe" or some such may give some bonus, but disadvantages should not be mitigators (is that a real word?).

If you have sense of duty you will get ashamed and maybe depressed because you hurt your friends while berseking. Similar with pacifist and other "good" disadvantages.

If you want to make your character Berserk disadvantage sensitive to other personality traits you should get it with a better self control roll (to simulate you rarely lose your temper but can happen) or get it with some limitation that reduces the cost (better self control roll if getting my friends in danger, or some such).
Rolando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2021, 12:50 PM   #4
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Going Berserk on your friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolando View Post
mitigators (is that a real word?).
Yes. Though I'd disagree that a Disadvantage can't on occasion produce a good result. They're net bad traits, but not universally absolutely monotonically bad traits.
Anaraxes is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2021, 01:53 PM   #5
JulianLW
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default Re: Going Berserk on your friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolando View Post
those are disadvantages, not advantages.

A higher purpose "be the best friend" or "keep my people safe" or some such may give some bonus, but disadvantages should not be mitigators (is that a real word?).

If you have sense of duty you will get ashamed and maybe depressed because you hurt your friends while berseking. Similar with pacifist and other "good" disadvantages.

If you want to make your character Berserk disadvantage sensitive to other personality traits you should get it with a better self control roll (to simulate you rarely lose your temper but can happen) or get it with some limitation that reduces the cost (better self control roll if getting my friends in danger, or some such).
Sense of Duty, according to RAW, does, in fact, give bonuses in some situations. This is from Social Engineering, page 54 (and there may be other cases):

"If the truth would expose a Secret of the prisoner, a friend or loved one, or a person or cause to whom he has Very Good or Excellent Loyalty or a Sense of Duty, he has a bonus to Will to resist questioning: +1 for Serious Embarrassment, +2 for Utter Rejection, +4 for Imprisonment or Exile, +6 for Possible Death. The same modifiers can apply for similar consequences even if the information isn’t formally defined as a Secret."

Sense of Duty to a friend can give up to a +6 bonus to a Will roll in an Interrogation situation. I'm wondering if the same dynamic should apply to Berserk.
JulianLW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2021, 09:18 PM   #6
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: Going Berserk on your friends?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
What kind of bonus to a self-control roll to not attack a friend would a Berserker get for having a Sense of Duty to that person?
Per RAW, I'd say nothing.

History and legend is full of examples of people who injured or killed loved ones or allies while in a berserk state (e.g., Hercules killing his family).

If the GM is feeling merciful, you might get bonuses for Sense of Duty or similar social or mental traits.

It's not canon, but successful rolls vs. Animal Handling (for Berserk animals) or Diplomacy or Psychology (for Berserk sapients) might give a bonus. Additionally, fatigue will gradually bring you out of a berserk state. You might get a +1 to recover if you are below 50% basic FP, and +2 if you are below 25% FP. Finally, pain or similar affliction - as long as it is inflicted after you berserk - might also help you "snap out of it," giving a bonus self-control rolls equal to the usual penalty to IQ or Will.
Pursuivant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2021, 09:34 PM   #7
Rolando
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Panama
Default Re: Going Berserk on your friends?

Disadvantages can give bonuses in some occasions but if they are used as mitigators then the mitigated disadvantage should cost less.

I'm all in for cases like having a bonus to a Will roll to resist interrogation to protect friends (because of the Sense of Duty) and other similar cases, and even for cases like allowing another Self Control roll to stop berserking (if your friends are trying to do something about it, not for free), but modifying a SC number seems to me borderline munchkin.

Imagine a character with Berserk and Pacifism: Self Defense Only. I can see a very conflicting character that suffer emotionally every time they goes berserk and hurt people that are not causing them real harm, but I would recommend a low SC number for the Berserk disadvantage, to represent the effort the character does to not lose control and because otherwise it will be hard to play. if you think it is an extreme case, in Vampire the Masquerade, a game mostly about personal horror, some vampires are cursed with a terrible temper, basically the Berserk disadvantage, but they where normal people and some where very pacifistic before being cursed.
Rolando is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:11 AM   #8
RedMattis
 
RedMattis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
Default Re: Going Berserk on your friends?

Well, the state of Berserk is basically Immunity to Pain/Shock/Stun and a very conditional bonus to survival. Probably about 30 points of advantages at best. The bad part is basically On the Edge CR:0 [-37.5] + will attack my allies if no enemies are left.

Honestly, the "attacking my allies" part isn't even the worst part, the acting like a complete blood-crazed fool is. Unless you're much stronger than your allies they can likely grapple you down (no defense rolls due to forced All out Attacks) and hand-cuff you or whatever. ...with one exception. If you combine Berserk with Bad Temper it basically turns you into a complete murder-monster. (really this should be its own disadvantage, it is far worse than the two together separately)

I'd probably put Berserk (Will stop attacking/start hitting the ground/... when enemies are gone) at -5 or -8 points. It isn't a huge difference to how disadvantageous the trait usually is. The social aspect is probably the biggest one ("I don't trust you not to turn on the rest of us when you just go completely out of control like that man!")
__________________
"Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared"
RedMattis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:31 AM   #9
RedMattis
 
RedMattis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
Default Re: Going Berserk on your friends?

If I were to rewrite the trait I'd remove the hitting friends part and replace it with with:

Berserk [-10 points]
[...]
When you run out of targets make a self control roll. If you succeed you snap out of it in 1d6 seconds. If you fail you may attempt again with a cumulative +2 bonus. While you are failing to snap out of it after running out of enemies you are pounding the ground, panting loudly, or performing other useless actions. You have no defenses, as per an All out Attack.

Unbound Berserker: When you can't identify any reasonably nearby enemies you will instead target neutral parties followed by allies. Whenever someone sees you go berserk or learns of your behavior they will react to you at -2. +50%

Frenzy: When you berserk you will target anyone else around you who isn't a dear friend, family, pack-mate, or other small category of individuals. Individuals who attempt to restrain you will always count as enemies. You will prefer targets who are obvious immediate threats to you. Whenever someone sees you go berserk or learns of your behavior they will react to you at -2. Consider getting a Secret or f.ex. Social Stigma (Monster). +50%.

Uncontrollable Frenzy: When you berserk you will target anyone else around you. You will prefer targets who are obvious immediate threats to you. Whenever someone sees you go berserk or learns of your behavior they will react to you at -2. Consider getting a Secret or f.ex. Social Stigma (Monster). +100%

Edit: Frenzy would f.ex. be suitable for mostly out-of-control werewolves who murder indiscriminately doesn't attack their own kind or pack.
__________________
"Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared"

Last edited by RedMattis; Yesterday at 07:39 AM.
RedMattis is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 07:49 AM   #10
Prince Charon
 
Prince Charon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: Going Berserk on your friends?

How sharp of a limiter to Berserk would 'Will not attack those you have a Sense of Duty to' be? I do think it would be more limiting the broader your SoD is (I don't think I'd even allow it if it covered 'All living things,' unless the game includes a sufficiently high chance of encountering undead and other characters who don't count as 'living'), but I'm not sure beyond that.
__________________
Warning, I have the Distractible and Imaginative quirks in real life.

"The more corrupt a government, the more it legislates."
-- Tacitus

Five Earths, All in a Row. Updated 5/25/2021: September, 2014 article has been posted.
Prince Charon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
berserk, berserker, mitigator, sense of duty

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.