Explosive Gems play balance

Tenex · 08-17-2018, 12:00 PM

I'm getting back into TFT after a 33 year hiatus. So I'm relearning the rules and they aren't as fresh as they used to be for me.

With regard to Explosive Gems, what is the cost to make them, how long does it take, etc.? There doesn't seem to be much detail in the spell description, nor in the brief comment in the section on creating magical items.

The spell description mentions the damage from 6d gems doing damage to creatures in surrounding hexes, so apparently gems of at least that much damage exist.

What's to stop a Wizard with a sling from being a very formidable foe? For instance, a sling shot with 5 pouches with 30 2d, 4d, 6d, 8d, and 10d gems in each? Or even, with Aid spells or ST batteries, a 20d+ explosive gem.

Just curious if I missed something in the rules or if people have a variety of house rules to address this.

Rick_Smith · 08-17-2018, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenex

I'm getting back into TFT after a 33 year hiatus. ...

Hi Tenex,
Welcome back!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenex

With regard to Explosive Gems, what is the cost to make them, how long does it take, etc.? ...

I found that explosive gems were too powerful. In my campaign they are a bit like nitroglycerin, they are dangerous to haul around.

I've also said that the maximum sized exploding gem is 5 dice of damage. I liked the gems doing area damage so 4 dice gems do 1d-2 damage to all adjacent hexes and 5 die gems do 1 die damage into adjacent hexes.

In my campaign a one die Gem costs $150 to create PLUS a $50 gemstone.
Each extra die of damage doubles the cost of the enchantment (and it still needs that $50 gemstone.)

So the prices work out to:

1 die: ...... $200
2 dice: ..... $350
3 dice: ..... $650
4 dice: ..... $1,250
5 dice: ..... $2,450

This makes the 5 die gems very expensive, but they SHOULD be expensive.

Warm regards, Rick.

Shadekeep · 08-17-2018, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith

I found that explosive gems were too powerful. In my campaign they are a bit like nitroglycerin, they are dangerous to haul around.

Agreed. Anyone carrying them was at risk of the gems being set off by impacts. A critical hit on someone carrying an explosive gem had a chance of detonating them, as did a severe fall or being hit by a rockslide trap.

They do make nice trap items, as well as convenient ways for wizards and others to booby-trap books and sensitive papers (one strike on the gem and the secret info is shredded). Or you could be evil and make a crown with explosive gems set it in, as a prelude to a regicide. In my campaign explosive gems had an obvious oily iridescence to them that gave their true nature away to most people. But there's nothing saying they can't be indistinguishable from ordinary gems.

And yes, I had a kind of escalating cost for how powerful they were, which put kiloton gems basically out of reach for most people. The volatility also increased with the potency, which made carrying gems over a certain potency a dangerous course.

larsdangly · 08-17-2018, 06:42 PM

That's a tough one. I agree that RAW explosive gems are pretty crazy powerful. On the other hand, so is a Wizard's Wrath with 10-15 points of ST behind it. I never did anything to change them in my game, but I also never had a player who tried to run an Explosive Gem scam. I kind of like there to be weird corners in any magic system, so I guess I'll continue to accept them as is (assuming they appear in the new edition).

One factor that matters to me: TFT is a game where pretty much any PC can get nuked pretty much any time. By the reflexive law of roleplaying game lethality, it therefore doesn't bug me when players stumble across ways they can definitely murder the next gooey monster they run across. A little fun can brighten their short, brutal lives...

JohnPaulB · 08-17-2018, 09:57 PM

Did you know you might be able to throw an Explosive Gem almost like a missile? See Advanced Melee Page 23 "Fire as Weapon":

"The range adjustment for DX on throwing molotails (and similar items) is -1 for every MEGAHEX distance from you to the target. If your target hex is 3 MH away, your DX is -3.

"If you MISS your DX roll, the molotail falls in another hex. The AMOUNT it misses by is the number of hexes by which you missed your roll. If your adjusted DX for the throw was 11, and you rolled a 14, you missed by 3 hexes. The DIRECTION is determined by rolling a die, as per the diagram."

To me, this might mean that you can throw that explosive gem 9 hexes away for only -3DX and it can waver any number of hexes if you miss.

Rick_Smith · 08-18-2018, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larsdangly

That's a tough one. I agree that RAW explosive gems are pretty crazy powerful. On the other hand, so is a Wizard's Wrath with 10-15 points of ST behind it. ...

Hi Larsdangly,
To be fair, I ALSO nerfed the missile spells in my campaign. And if memory serves, in the new TFT the maximum size of missile spell is 3 fatigue ST now.

Warm regards, Rick.

Tenex · 08-18-2018, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith

Hi Larsdangly,
To be fair, I ALSO nerfed the missile spells in my campaign. And if memory serves, in the new TFT the maximum size of missile spell is 3 fatigue ST now.

Warm regards, Rick.

Not to get off topic, but I really think the 3 fST limit is too extreme. Unless the mana changes make it different, the way wizards have to "damage" themselves to fight in combat makes the ability to use a big shot to get through armor a necessity sometimes. IMO, too many changes all at once for this new edition.

Tenex · 08-18-2018, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larsdangly

That's a tough one. I agree that RAW explosive gems are pretty crazy powerful. On the other hand, so is a Wizard's Wrath with 10-15 points of ST behind it.

But you typically have only one shot at a 15 point Wizards Wrath. Unaltered by house rules, there is nothing in the standard rules that prevents a wizard from stocking up on a couple pouches worth of 6d fST free attacks.

larsdangly · 08-18-2018, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith

Hi Larsdangly,
To be fair, I ALSO nerfed the missile spells in my campaign. And if memory serves, in the new TFT the maximum size of missile spell is 3 fatigue ST now.

Warm regards, Rick.

Do we know that for sure? That seems too restrictive. If I did anything I would have used the standard 'rule of 5'

David Bofinger · 08-19-2018, 07:26 PM

I think weapons that let you be more powerful if you pay to use them add little and are usually a terrible idea. I think explosive gems should be deleted.

This applies whether the price is in $ or XP.

Universal solvent has applications like this as well but it's kind of cool so it would be a shame to lose it.

08-17-2018, 12:00 PM	#1
Tenex Join Date: Aug 2018	Explosive Gems play balance I'm getting back into TFT after a 33 year hiatus. So I'm relearning the rules and they aren't as fresh as they used to be for me. With regard to Explosive Gems, what is the cost to make them, how long does it take, etc.? There doesn't seem to be much detail in the spell description, nor in the brief comment in the section on creating magical items. The spell description mentions the damage from 6d gems doing damage to creatures in surrounding hexes, so apparently gems of at least that much damage exist. What's to stop a Wizard with a sling from being a very formidable foe? For instance, a sling shot with 5 pouches with 30 2d, 4d, 6d, 8d, and 10d gems in each? Or even, with Aid spells or ST batteries, a 20d+ explosive gem. Just curious if I missed something in the rules or if people have a variety of house rules to address this.

08-17-2018, 06:42 PM	#4
larsdangly Join Date: Dec 2017	Re: Explosive Gems play balance That's a tough one. I agree that RAW explosive gems are pretty crazy powerful. On the other hand, so is a Wizard's Wrath with 10-15 points of ST behind it. I never did anything to change them in my game, but I also never had a player who tried to run an Explosive Gem scam. I kind of like there to be weird corners in any magic system, so I guess I'll continue to accept them as is (assuming they appear in the new edition). One factor that matters to me: TFT is a game where pretty much any PC can get nuked pretty much any time. By the reflexive law of roleplaying game lethality, it therefore doesn't bug me when players stumble across ways they can definitely murder the next gooey monster they run across. A little fun can brighten their short, brutal lives...

08-17-2018, 09:57 PM	#5
JohnPaulB Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Portland, Maine	Re: Explosive Gems play balance Did you know you might be able to throw an Explosive Gem almost like a missile? See Advanced Melee Page 23 "Fire as Weapon": "The range adjustment for DX on throwing molotails (and similar items) is -1 for every MEGAHEX distance from you to the target. If your target hex is 3 MH away, your DX is -3. "If you MISS your DX roll, the molotail falls in another hex. The AMOUNT it misses by is the number of hexes by which you missed your roll. If your adjusted DX for the throw was 11, and you rolled a 14, you missed by 3 hexes. The DIRECTION is determined by rolling a die, as per the diagram." To me, this might mean that you can throw that explosive gem 9 hexes away for only -3DX and it can waver any number of hexes if you miss. __________________ - Hail Melee Fantasy Chess: A chess game with combat. Don't just take the square, Fight for it! https://www.shadowhex.com

08-19-2018, 07:26 PM	#10
David Bofinger Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Sydney, Australia	Re: Explosive Gems play balance I think weapons that let you be more powerful if you pay to use them add little and are usually a terrible idea. I think explosive gems should be deleted. This applies whether the price is in $ or XP. Universal solvent has applications like this as well but it's kind of cool so it would be a shame to lose it.