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Old 08-19-2018, 05:02 AM   #1
ecz
 
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Default the CA heresy

well,
since we are talking about heresies
what about my CA (Covered Arc) heresy?

CA is now based on the hexspine toward which the figure points, and includes both hexes formed by that hexspine. Thus now we have two front hexes instead than three.

Rear facing are the two opposite hexes (instead than only one), side facing are the two remaining hexes as usual.

Who plays tactical wargames like Panzer Leader or Advanced Squad Leader understands what I'm saying. In these games units have just two "front" hexes and the counter points toward an hexpine (and not toward an hexside like in Melee).

What changes in our tactical man to man combat game using this new house (heretic, I know) rule?

I have only lightly playtested this version but it seems the combat is more dynamic (more movement) since now characters engage only two opponents at time. Also is less deadly since any attacker has only two possible targets and not three. Also cooperative actions/ tactics and team work is more important, since each character has TWO rear hexes and need more help and protection from his friends.
Also HtH is more common .

In general there are more options and combat is less static. But I never fully playtested it. We did just a couple of fights 4 vs 4 and 5 vs 5 to test it.
no problem at first sight.

anyone ever tried this?
Opinions?
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Old 08-19-2018, 12:19 PM   #2
Nils_Lindeberg
 
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Default Re: the CA heresy

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecz View Post
well,
since we are talking about heresies
what about my CA (Covered Arc) heresy?

CA is now based on the hexspine toward which the figure points, and includes both hexes formed by that hexspine. Thus now we have two front hexes instead than three.

Rear facing are the two opposite hexes (instead than only one), side facing are the two remaining hexes as usual.

Who plays tactical wargames like Panzer Leader or Advanced Squad Leader understands what I'm saying. In these games units have just two "front" hexes and the counter points toward an hexpine (and not toward an hexside like in Melee).

What changes in our tactical man to man combat game using this new house (heretic, I know) rule?

I have only lightly playtested this version but it seems the combat is more dynamic (more movement) since now characters engage only two opponents at time. Also is less deadly since any attacker has only two possible targets and not three. Also cooperative actions/ tactics and team work is more important, since each character has TWO rear hexes and need more help and protection from his friends.
Also HtH is more common .

In general there are more options and combat is less static. But I never fully playtested it. We did just a couple of fights 4 vs 4 and 5 vs 5 to test it.
no problem at first sight.

anyone ever tried this?
Opinions?
Intriguing, but doesn't it almost always lead to the person moving second getting at least a side attack. If they are not engaged it only cost like one or two extra moves to get into the weak side and sometimes only two extra moves to get someone in the back. And if they are engaged you just make a one hex shift to his "blind" side if you win initiative and decide to go last?
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Old 08-19-2018, 02:31 PM   #3
ecz
 
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Default Re: the CA heresy

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Intriguing, but doesn't it almost always lead to the person moving second getting at least a side attack. If they are not engaged it only cost like one or two extra moves to get into the weak side and sometimes only two extra moves to get someone in the back. And if they are engaged you just make a one hex shift to his "blind" side if you win initiative and decide to go last?
not sure to have understood.
I believe that shifting is not allowed if you shift out of the front hexes of an enemy (i.e. you cannot disengage using the shift option).
as we noticed these rules require more attention and planning to avoid side/rear attacks and a more strict collaboration among the components of the group.
yes "zoc" is reduced, so audacious enemies can penetrate more easily in deep, but while I think it is realistic, they also risk more.
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:55 PM   #4
David Bofinger
 
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Default Re: the CA heresy

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I believe that shifting is not allowed if you shift out of the front hexes of an enemy (i.e. you cannot disengage using the shift option).
You can shift from a front hex to a side hex (AM4, "SHIFTING"). Unless you plan to change that.

If you have a solid line you're sort of protected from this but in a duel whoever loses the initiative is in big trouble. Probably they run away for a turn, and if they can't run they get hit.

Or you could allow post-second-move rotation for the first mover.

You could also say left side hex is covered by a shield, and the right side hex is a valid attack target (at least for a one-handed weapon). (Assuming a right-handed figure.)
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Old 08-20-2018, 02:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: the CA heresy

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You can shift from a front hex to a side hex (AM4, "SHIFTING"). Unless you plan to change that.

If you have a solid line you're sort of protected from this but in a duel whoever loses the initiative is in big trouble. Probably they run away for a turn, and if they can't run they get hit.

Or you could allow post-second-move rotation for the first mover.

You could also say left side hex is covered by a shield, and the right side hex is a valid attack target (at least for a one-handed weapon). (Assuming a right-handed figure.)
If memory serves we played not allowing the shift out of an enemy front hexes once a figure is engaged. I do not remember if we discussed about this rule or if we simply played wrong. Engaged figures in our games can turn in any direction but can shift one hex only IF they remains engaged.

We never noticed problems, and we played for years this way
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Old 08-20-2018, 03:16 AM   #6
Rick_Smith
 
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Default Re: the CA heresy

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If memory serves we played not allowing the shift out of an enemy front hexes once a figure is engaged. I do not remember if we discussed about this rule or if we simply played wrong. Engaged figures in our games can turn in any direction but can shift one hex only IF they remains engaged.

We never noticed problems, and we played for years this way
Hi ecz.
What the rules say is that you can shift one hex, staying ADJACENT to figures that you are engaged with. There is no restriction that you must stay in their front hexes.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 08-20-2018, 03:34 AM   #7
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: the CA heresy

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Hi ecz.
What the rules say is that you can shift one hex, staying ADJACENT to figures that you are engaged with. There is no restriction that you must stay in their front hexes.

Warm regards, Rick.
Rick is correct. The only way to avoid this is to engage the enemy “head on.” In other words, you engage with the centre hex of your 3 front hexes. This means the enemy can only shift to one of the other front hexes. If you are engaged on either the left front or right front hex, the enemy can shift to a side hex.
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:50 AM   #8
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Default Re: the CA heresy

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Hi ecz.
What the rules say is that you can shift one hex, staying ADJACENT to figures that you are engaged with. There is no restriction that you must stay in their front hexes.

Warm regards, Rick.
yes, I see this. For some reason we played limiting this shifting capability. We discussed about this.
I have asked confirmation to an old player of the first historic group playing TFT in my town.

When I first joined the group, this was the way they played. Later, with me as GM, we mantained this house rule (you can turn the facing in any direction but the shift is allowed only if you remain engaged) because this appeared us better.
So, even the heretical variant above, was playtested using the shifting limitation and worked pretty well.

I admit that the hexpine facing variant is not exactly good if the player moving second can always gain a side shot making a free shift as per RAW...
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Old 08-21-2018, 06:30 PM   #9
fisherro
 
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Default Re: the CA heresy

The copies of Melee & Advanced Melee I have disagree on this. Melee doesn’t allow shifting out of the front hexes of any figure that has engaged you. Advanced Melee, however, only says that you have to stay adjacent to them.
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