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Old 08-12-2018, 04:17 AM   #1
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Any answer on whether bare hand damage goes up with ST?

Advanced Melee says it does, Melee gives a flat damage. Which will the new ITL have?

Also, will club, cestus, and maul (and daggers in HTH) still be based on the bare-hand damage table like in Advanced Melee?

If bare hand damage does still go up with ST, are the Brawling and Unarmed Combat rules used as-is in the Advanced Combat Skills thread?
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Old 08-12-2018, 08:37 AM   #2
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Any answer on whether bare hand damage goes up with ST?

They have been unusually quiet about this one. A bit surprising. I would not have recommended treating such a basic issue differently in Melee and AM, as they did in the original, but perhaps that is the debate they are having off stage. Hard to say.
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:03 PM   #3
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Any answer on whether bare hand damage goes up with ST?

I have just finished some new features in my Sim. UC seems to be doing ok without stacking Brawling and UC talents. Extra damage from ST might not be needed from a balancing standpoint, but it would be bad design not to include it.

If ST hardly matters, only extra HP. And extra DX above 15 matters as little. Then the progression is extremely rigid.

The only way to scale a UC fighter is by getting the best talent and leave ST at 8. Once you get to 8/15/14 (cloth armor) you have 3 point to place up to 40, but they really don't matter much.

My Sim confirms this as well.

If I look at all the other warrior builds I have a choice of armor, I have a choice of a heavier weapon and I can go one or two handed. And then with talents I can go with Shrewd or not. Lots of different builds. In my sim I now have basically 2 or 3 UC builds per point level. And I have from 2 to 16 builds for each weapon. And I can always go from Broadsword to Bastard sword and get another 8 builds to chose from.

Fencing is also limited. Fencing and Sword Expertise should be the same talent, so you could go from light weapons to heavier and not lose talents, but with light weapons the advantage and adjDX could remain. Or there should be a rule so you could use increased ST with lighter weapons.

UC talents are always better than just buying more ST or DX. Fencing is the same. The other weapon talents are more balanced compared to ST and DX increases.

Having prereqs. is not the way to go for UC! Sure if you train a lot of martial arts you will improve in other areas too, but the same goes for any weapon training. And an old master with deteriorating physical attributes will not lose his UC training he will be more reliant on it to compensate for his weaker body. It is not a coincidence that the best MMA fighters out there are physical power houses that usually know less than their old trainers.

DX scales with To Hit so no one will go for UC 5 and have a DX of 6. It would be wasteful. Same should go for ST. ST 8 should not be the norm. Sure if those points are used for better talents or higher DX it might compensate, but his base damage should suck. And a UC 3 guy with high ST and DX should stand a chance against a UC 5 guy, with low ST and DX. It should be a choice, not a class progressions system that is more rigid than D&D (which it is now).
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Old 08-16-2018, 01:26 PM   #4
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Any answer on whether bare hand damage goes up with ST?

There appears to be an answer coming soon to a Kickstarter stretch goal near you! 😁
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:24 PM   #5
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Any answer on whether bare hand damage goes up with ST?

I'd leave Melee's simplified treatment alone for Melee and Wizard. For TFT, I'd probably keep the Advanced Melee treatment.

I'd also lobby for such a chart to help monster creators calibrate the damage done by their creations.
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:23 PM   #6
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Any answer on whether bare hand damage goes up with ST?

I feel like ST influencing HTH damage is so obvious and easy to implement that it would be a mistake to drop it or treat it differently in Melee and AM.
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:39 AM   #7
guymc
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Any answer on whether bare hand damage goes up with ST?

From the latest version of the Advanced Melee section:

Quote:
Combat with Bare Hands, Daggers, Cestus, or Club
It is possible to fight without any weapon at all, either in hand-to-hand combat (e.g., kneeing and gouging) or in regular combat (punching and kicking). The damage a figure does in bare-handed combat is ruled by his strength.
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Old 08-21-2018, 06:41 AM   #8
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: Any answer on whether bare hand damage goes up with ST?

Quote:
Originally Posted by guymc View Post
From the latest version of the Advanced Melee section:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat with Bare Hands, Daggers, Cestus, or Club
It is possible to fight without any weapon at all, either in hand-to-hand combat (e.g., kneeing and gouging) or in regular combat (punching and kicking). The damage a figure does in bare-handed combat is ruled by his strength.
The latest UC I, posted on the site, says: "Regular bare-hands damage is 1d-4".

Which is correct?
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Old 08-21-2018, 07:09 AM   #9
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Any answer on whether bare hand damage goes up with ST?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
The latest UC I, posted on the site, says: "Regular bare-hands damage is 1d-4".

Which is correct?
I think both. See the table on p21 of Advanced Melee. We always took 1d-4 as the base damage.
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