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Old 02-08-2024, 09:20 PM   #11
Infornific
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Unchanged. The Supersoldier's ST score was purchased to gain a certain damage level rather than a lifting total and the Damage Table is unchanged between 3e and 4e.

If you lower ST from 20 to 14 you lower Thrust from 2D-1 to 1D. You'll have lowered HP too and this combat oriented character will be much weaker in combat.
Alternately, go with ST 16 (and drop extra HP) plus Striking ST 4. That would give you the same damage and lifting ability, more or less, as well as the same HP.

So...

Super-Soldier

168 points

Attributes: ST +6 [60]; DX +1 [20]; HT +3 [30].
Advantages: Combat Reflexes [15]; Boosted Speed [18]; Striking ST 4 [20]; Very Fit [15).
Disadvantages: Increased Life Support (X2 food requirements) [-10]

Possibly consider adding the Bioenhancement limitation (-10%) and Unusual Biochemistry.


Note that 3e GURPS was a little weird about ST. For Extra Effort, you rolled against ST at -1 per +10% so a 3e character with ST 20 could routinely make extra effort and boost lift 40% with almost no chance of failure.
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Old 02-09-2024, 03:17 AM   #12
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Unchanged. The Supersoldier's ST score was purchased to gain a certain damage level rather than a lifting total and the Damage Table is unchanged between 3e and 4e.

If you lower ST from 20 to 14 you lower Thrust from 2D-1 to 1D. You'll have lowered HP too and this combat oriented character will be much weaker in combat.
Well, that's soundly reasoned. And it does make sense to me that the super soldier ought to be at the upper limit of human strength, mythically.
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Old 02-09-2024, 06:34 AM   #13
TGLS
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
I think I got a minor mention of that but the whole "lower ST from 3e to 4e" should have been scrapped for any characters who were not professional stevedores.
If I recall, the options were laid out as:
1) Preserve BL (Use this giant table)
2) Preserve Damage (Keep the value unchanged)
3) Preserve both (Use the table, and then add striking ST until you're at the same level).
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Old 02-09-2024, 10:29 AM   #14
WholesomeMadScientist
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

Rechecked GURPS Update… So it is ST +4? I am still unclear about Extra Hit Points +3 [15].

Last edited by WholesomeMadScientist; 02-09-2024 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 02-09-2024, 10:56 AM   #15
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

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Originally Posted by WholesomeMadScientist View Post
Rechecked GURPS Update… So it is ST +4? I am still unclear about Extra Hit Points +3 [15].
I would leave ST alone to keep the damage.

"Extra HP +3" was how things were expressed in 3e. It would mean just "+3 HP" in 4e.

If you leave ST at 20 you don't need more HP very much. 20 HP is an important breakpoint in 4e.
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Old 02-09-2024, 09:31 PM   #16
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
I would leave ST alone to keep the damage.

"Extra HP +3" was how things were expressed in 3e. It would mean just "+3 HP" in 4e.

If you leave ST at 20 you don't need more HP very much. 20 HP is an important breakpoint in 4e.
I agree. Ultimately hand to hand damage is an unimportant stat on the World War II battlefield, but hit points and and the ability to carry a lot of gear do matter.
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Old 02-09-2024, 11:01 PM   #17
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
I agree. Ultimately hand to hand damage is an unimportant stat on the World War II battlefield, but hit points and and the ability to carry a lot of gear do matter.
For a template originally from Gurps Supers hand-to-hand damage might matter. It's not for a realistic war and it's not a realistic Template.
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Old 02-09-2024, 11:35 PM   #18
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
For a template originally from Gurps Supers hand-to-hand damage might matter. It's not for a realistic war and it's not a realistic Template.
Weird War II, not supers. But still it is Steve Rogers inspired so +4 strength ain't gonna cut it.
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Old 02-10-2024, 03:08 PM   #19
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
In GURPS 4/e, strength is not logarithmic at all, but quadratic. Basic Lift is not, for example, 5 x 2^(ST/5), but (ST x ST)/5.
Grrr. My dumb mistake. You're right, of course.

Actually doing my homework and checking GURPS Update, GURPS 3E ST 20 = GURPS 4E ST 14. Add levels of Striking ST and extra HP, as others have suggested, to retain GURPS 3E levels of unarmed/melee combat effectiveness and HP.

E.g.,

Attributes: ST 14 [40].
Secondary Traits: HP +6 [12].
Advantages: Striking ST 6 [30].

Net character point reduction of -18 points vs. just having GURPS 4E ST 20.
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Old 02-14-2024, 01:37 AM   #20
pawsplay
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Weird War II Super-Soldiers as a 4e Racial Template

I would actually assume the original ST was chosen for lifting capacity, since GURPS tends to favor real world measures, and "base damage" is less quantifiable. However, increased Striking ST beyond what is normal for a human seems like a plausible accomplishment for the process, as well. Of course, if you want them to throw motorcycles, you might as well keep the original ST.

Steve Rogers is also very resistant to toxins.
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