[DF] Allowing Innate Attack advantage

[psydraco]

I want to put Attack Innate in my DF table because it let any creation of special attack, power etc, for any idea a player can have.

But dungeon fantasy campaings are focused on combat, so, innate attack advantage would be overpower assuming the amount of damage you can achieve paying just a few points comparing to what all the classes can offer.

There is a way to balance Innate Attack to use in DF? Assuming most of time the pcs will be battling, duplicating the cost will be fair?

I am afraid to allow it at is normal cost and make the characters who not have innate attacks far weaker than those who has. So offensivelly as defensivelly because at normal cost, a character can have a nice damage for just a few points, remaining a lot to invest in defensive options.

For those who had trying using this advantage before, how it was? Any tips?

Thanks!

[Taneli]

Add in UB until it's no longer overpowering option.

Or limit it to just one die of damage, maybe with interesting options for enhancements.
U
Oh, and give it a mandatory limitation of costs FP, limited use, or some other that makes less easy to use.

[finn]

Dungeon Fantasy 11 allows Wizards to purchase Innate Attack in the form of Magical Bolt.

Allowing the players to design Innate Attacks that are appropriate for their character's templates, with GM oversite, is fine if that's what you want to do. You can use the stats for Magical Bolt as a reference point so those to Innate Attacks aren't too powerful or too cheap for the DF genre.

[WingedKagouti]

Require a level of Costs Fatigue per die and two per level of Area Effect and it will be roughly similar in power to standard attack Magic per attack. The upside will be no roll to activate (still need to roll to hit) and usable the same turn, the comparative downside is no cost reduction for high skill.

You could also require either Takes Recharge or Limited Uses. Or multiple levels of Takes Extra Time. If you combine several you can relax the individual limitations.

If all Innate Attacks require eg. Costs Fatigue 2 (-10%), Takes Extra Time 1 (-10%) and Takes Recharge (15 seconds, -20%), they can be allowed to be quite powerful without dominating every combat as long as they're not powerful enough to instantly kill every enemy in an encounter. While a 5d Burning Attack with those modifiers alone will only cost 15 points, it will also take 2 seconds to fire, cost 2 fatigue, only be usable once in most fights, will almost certainly not kill more than one target and the user still needs to land the attack.

[khorboth]

Basically you have two options:

1) Only allow specific pre-built versions. THIS power-bolt. THIS flaming fist. THIS super-bow. Etc. Then, you design them to not break your game.

2) Let the players build, but keep a close eye on them. In that case, the more guidelines you put in the better. Things like: Gotta have some fatigue cost at 1FP per die of impailing or 2d or crushing. No attacks with range over 100 yards. No Sig is right out. Etc.

A hybrid approach is also not a bad idea. Give some guidelines. Work up a half-dozen good examples. Let the players consider modifications from there if they like the crunch.

[Varyon]

"Natural Weapons" from Pyramid #3/65 can be a useful alternative here, as the damage dealt is based on ST. With all the modifiers available, you can build just about anything you can with Innate Attack (technically, things like Cyclic and Side Effect are off-limits, but as GM you can waive those restrictions if needed), but the damage will still be in the range of what the character can do with a weapon. For brainy characters, it's technically only +10% to base damage on IQ (or any other attribute). Personally, I feel it should cost more (leaning more toward +50%, honestly), but +10% is the RAW (see here).

I think there's a Power Up for the Martial Artist (either in the relevant DF book or in a Pyramid article) that grants a "ki blast" built with Innate Attack - but you are limited to the damage the character can do with a punch. So that's another route that can be taken (as above, you could base the maximum damage on a different attribute; I don't recall how the Magical Bolt Advantage is designed, but limiting it to the thr damage associated with ST that is equal to your IQ+Magery - so for a character with IQ 14 and Magery 3, use ST 17 - could work).

[psydraco]

Thanks! This guidelines will help a lot.

[Hide]

If you are the GM, there’s nothing to worry about.

Things can’t be overpowered if you throw the right “challenges” in. I would advise in favor of letting your players do as much as they can with the books allowed for your campaign; as long as you revise everything, you will be OK.

Making a list of “things I ban or permit in this setting” is sort of dissuasive in my opinion. Just let them know they can’t do X or Y when you believe their choice is not within the spirit of the game (e.g. having the Knight Rider’s KITT as an ally in a dungeon-fantasy game).

Let them be creative, and co-create with your players.

Finally, if “whatever thing” escaped you at the moment you made “the guideline”, you will have to make amendments or deal with it in the future, adding to potential friction.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Hide

If you are the GM, there’s nothing to worry about.

Things can’t be overpowered if you throw the right “challenges” in. I would advise in favor of letting your players do as much as they can with the books allowed for your campaign; as long as you revise everything, you will be OK.

One issue is that if the characters are built differently, and one way is markedly superior, the players of the inferior characters can feel left out and superfluous. Either you're throwing the party up against foes scaled to the inferior characters, in which case the superior ones mop them up without difficulty, or you're throwing them up against foes scaled to the superior ones, in which case the inferior characters can't meaningfully contribute. A mixed approach can work, with the superior characters facing off against the boss-tier foes while the inferior ones support them by mopping up the minions, but you'll still have players who'd rather not be playing second fiddle just because their character concept was for, say, a swashbuckling duelist rather than a DBZ-style martial artist flinging chi blasts all over the place.

[Gnome]

DF 14 - Psi has innate attacks among the psionic powers. I would recommend any character who would like to add innate attacks to their repertoire buy the Mentalist lens (page 19) and use the rules in that book, which do a decent job balancing out powerful abilities with drawbacks and limiting what you can do with psi.