Weapon Master (Shield)

[VariousRen]

Is there anything stated on using shields to parry instead of block. If we're using it as a weapon and it qualifies for weapon master, can you use it to parry instead of block? In fact, could you use it to parry a bunch then get a single unpenalized block after? And finally, if parrying with it, do you still get it's DB?

This would open up a whole new realm of sort-of-shield-sort-of-weapons for cinematic games. Something like the ridiculously wide sword that is two handed, but also grands DB 1 or 2.

[Anaraxes]

"Block" is "parry with a shield".

I could see an argument that there shouldn't be a distinction in the first place, but given that there is one, there doesn't seem to me to be a point to having both a "shield block" and "shield parry" rule.

[Humabout]

Originally Posted by Appletoe

Have you considered giving your monsters immunity to pain and/or unconsciousness to get around this?

Neither Immunity to Pain or Unconsciousness affects major wounds, but Hard to Subdue would keep them fighting into negative hit points. Either way, I'm not against letting him have his Moments of Awesome and just chucking more monsters at him and the group as a whole. Of course, when it comes time for them to run into a nasty, there plenty of ways to negate that shield and the brutality of its effects.

[Kallatari]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

"Block" is "parry with a shield".

I could see an argument that there shouldn't be a distinction in the first place, but given that there is one, there doesn't seem to me to be a point to having both a "shield block" and "shield parry" rule.

In my house rules, I allow both Parry and Block with a shield as distinct defenses. A Block grants the DB, but a success means that the shield is hit and takes the damage of the blow. A Parry with the shield does not grant the DB bonus, but the shield deflects the blow and thus does not take damage. So there's a decision to be made by the player as to whether or not he thinks he can successfully parry the blow or take the DB bonus and risk having the shield destroyed.

With respect to penalties, I treat Parry and Block as the same thing; performing either active defense imposes a cumulative -4 penalty on the next active defense, regardless of which one it is.

As a side note, I allow both Block and Parry with weapons as well, where a Block means the weapon takes the blunt of the blow and is thus damaged in the process. Most mid-sized weapons (e.g., broadsword) qualify for a +1 DB.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Kallatari

In my house rules, I allow both Parry and Block with a shield as distinct defenses.... I allow both Block and Parry with weapons as well

That would be logical, as weapons can also do both.

Though I don't think the normal combat system is that specific about the terms "parry" and "block". RAW weapon "parries" also include things that many people would call a "block". I suspect the main reason for having two different terms was simply that up through 3e, Parry and Block scores were calculated differently. It would have been confusing to call them the same thing.

If you're going to distinguish the two for shields, you might as well make the distinction for weapons as well (as you do). And of course for unarmed combat as well. ("Blocks" here would often not be of the weapon itself, but of the limb of the attacker. That would occasionally be true of weapons and shields as well. Though there's always the pesky term "stop hit".)

[Lorka]

My house rule on shield treat them just like weapons, so they parry, there is no such thing as a block - I once kept block as defence against missile weapons, but found it to be annoying to remember that the second defence is -5 in that one case.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Kromm

From Multiple Blocks (Martial Arts, p. 123): "Those with the Weapon Master advantage halve these penalties and round in the negative direction."

Now I want to invent the shield that halves penalties, like a fencing weapon.

[Maz]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Now I want to invent the shield that halves penalties, like a fencing weapon.

It wouldn't be terribly unfair to allow a Parrying Buckler to do this.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Maz

It wouldn't be terribly unfair to allow a Parrying Buckler to do this.

The Force Shield Bracelet (Ultra-Tech p192) should do it naturally, IMHO. Mind you, it's TL11^.