Assistance needed in confirming the specs for a specific gun.

[Frosty]

Hello, I'm a GM planning a campaign that is set in the modern day that will mainly utilise GURPS Lite Fourth Edition and I require some assistance in confirming the specs for a certain gun.

I'm using GURPS Lite because I'm a newbie to GURPS and so are my players. I have only ever once role played in a GURPS campaign and although it fizzled out due to inactivity on behalf of the players, the roleplaying system grew on me because I was looking for something fresh and new as well as fun and engaging. As for running campaigns that utilises GURPS, this marks my second attempt at beginning a game.

Anyway, that's enough from me. To reiterate, the point of creating this thread was to ask for assistance in confirming the specs of a specific model of gun. That gun is the Glock 19 Compact semi-automatic pistol.

Using GURPS Lite Third Edition and GURPS: Fallout, I managed to piece together some of the stats for the pistol. The Glock 19 is chambered for 9 x 19 mm Parabellum ammunition and all three of my sources designate the damage for that caliber as 2d + 2 pi, as well as confirm that the rate of fire should be at 3 and the minimum strength requirement at 9.

Now, this is where I'm unsure. I have yet to confirm accuracy, bulk, recoil and cost. My guess for accuracy is that since the Glock 19 Compact semi-automatic pistol is a reduced-sized Glock 17, it should be at 2. As for bulk, GURPS: Fallout indicates the G17 as -2 and the FN Five-seveN (a more compact handgun) as -1, so I was thinking about going with the latter. Recoil looks to be pretty consistent at 2.

Is this all right, in terms of GURPS Lite Fourth Edition? I don't want to model the stats for a handgun, only to later find that I did it for an outdated version. As for cost, I am clueless and would greatly appreciate estimates of the cost of a compact Glock (or any 9mm handgun, for that matter) and ammunition for it, in U.S. dollars.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Using GURPS Lite Third Edition and GURPS: Fallout

There isn't any such book as "GURPS: Fallout"; there might be some fan made adaptation on the web, but there's never been an official Fallout RPG license.

Is this all right, in terms of GURPS Lite Fourth Edition? I don't want to model the stats for a handgun, only to later find that I did it for an outdated version. As for cost, I am clueless and would greatly appreciate estimates of the cost of a compact Glock (or any 9mm handgun, for that matter) and ammunition for it, in U.S. dollars.

I'm a little confused about what you are trying to accomplish here. If you don't want to use the specific stats for the weapon from GURPS High-Tech because you are using Lite, then why aren't you just using the generic stats from Lite in the first place? I'd think the whole point of using Lite is so that you don't have to worry about any complicated details. If you do want to use less generic stats, why aren't you just using the one's from High Tech?

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

There isn't any such book as "GURPS: Fallout"; there might be some fan made adaptation on the web, but there's never been an official Fallout RPG license.

I'm a little confused about what you are trying to accomplish here. If you don't want to use the specific stats for the weapon from GURPS High-Tech because you are using Lite, then why aren't you just using the generic stats from Lite in the first place? I'd think the whole point of using Lite is so that you don't have to worry about any complicated details. If you do want to use less generic stats, why aren't you just using the one's from High Tech?

Regarding GURPS: Fallout, yes I was referring to a fan-made conversion (link is below).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14646941/G...-Conversion-30

Also, it's not that I don't want to use the specifics stats for the Glock 19 from GURPS High Tech, I'm asking for help in determining and confirming the stats for the handgun in question because I don't actually own GURPS High-Tech and, as far as I know, it's not free to download.

As for using the generic stats from GURPS Lite Fourth Edition, the problem for me is that they're a little too generic. Trawling these forums, I have noticed that the universality of GURPS is its greatest forte and its greatest flaw.

But we're getting off track here. The point is, have I determined the stats for the Glock 19 correctly and would they be compatible with a campaign using GURPS Lite Fourth Edition?

[Apache]

If all you are using is GURPS Lite, then yeah, you pretty much have all you need to stat a 9mm Glock (or any other 9mm auto, for that matter).

As for how much a Glock costs, just Google it. You can get it off any online gun catalog. Same with ammo cost.

[Þorkell]

Originally Posted by Frosty

But we're getting off track here. The point is, have I determined the stats for the Glock 19 correctly and would they be compatible with a campaign using GURPS Lite Fourth Edition?

It has the same stats as a Glock 17 except damage is 2d+1 and it weighs slightly less.

[Dave E]

Originally Posted by Þorkell

It has the same stats as a Glock 17 except damage is 2d+1 and it weighs slightly less.

Yep.

Oh, and that GURPS Fallout fan-page assigns too low a Bulk for the FN, pistols have to be pretty small to qualify for Bulk 1.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by Dave E

Yep.

Oh, and that GURPS Fallout fan-page assigns too low a Bulk for the FN, pistols have to be pretty small to qualify for Bulk 1.

Yes it does.

The FN pistol (the 5.7x28mm one, anyway) is not a small gun.

For example, the Glock 34, a 9mm pistol, is 207mm long, 138mm high, and 30mm wide.

The 5-7 pistol is 208mm long, 145mm high, and 36mm wide.

The G34 is pretty much a competition/optimized version of a G17, I think. It's got a 5.3" barrel, longer than the usual glocks, and still has the double-stack magazine.

I find the Glock 21 in .45ACP to be about the largest grip I can get my hands around comfortably (esp in that caliber). That's about 33mm wide, which means the FN pistol is even WIDER. The low recoil impulse of the 5.8mm round probably means it doesn't feel quite as awkward, though.

Still, it's a big gun, not a small one.

Consider: Kimber Tactical, standard .45ACP upgrade pistol with 5" barrel. This is, by all intents, a gun to be worn in an exposed holster, loaded up with an underbarrel sight or light.

Length: 8.7" (221 mm)
Height: 5.5" (140 mm)
Width: 1.28" (32.5 mm)

It's smaller in two of the three dimensions than the 5-7 pistol.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Also, it's not that I don't want to use the specifics stats for the Glock 19 from GURPS High Tech, I'm asking for help in determining and confirming the stats for the handgun in question because I don't actually own GURPS High-Tech and, as far as I know, it's not free to download.

As for using the generic stats from GURPS Lite Fourth Edition, the problem for me is that they're a little too generic. Trawling these forums, I have noticed that the universality of GURPS is its greatest forte and its greatest flaw.

If you want to use the more detailed rules, it's not unreasonable for SJGames to expect you to pay for them. Hans Christian Vorstich did an amazing amount of work researching and writing GURPS High-Tech. You'll find it useful beyond the weapons statistics, there's lots of rules for TL5-8 equipment, not just stats but rules for using them too. Any game that features lots of gunplay in particular can definitely use that book.

But we're getting off track here. The point is, have I determined the stats for the Glock 19 correctly and would they be compatible with a campaign using GURPS Lite Fourth Edition?

That's where you lose me. Gun stats "compatible" with GURPS Lite must use the generic stats in GURPS Lite, anything more complicated than that isn't GURPS Lite anymore. Isn't the whole point of using GURPS Lite (except as a free demo) to not be bogged down with the full complexity of GURPS?

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Apache

If all you are using is GURPS Lite, then yeah, you pretty much have all you need to stat a 9mm Glock (or any other 9mm auto, for that matter).

As for how much a Glock costs, just Google it. You can get it off any online gun catalog. Same with ammo cost.

Okay, thanks for your input.

Originally Posted by Þorkell

It has the same stats as a Glock 17 except damage is 2d+1 and it weighs slightly less.

Oh, really? Thanks for the help.

Originally Posted by Dave E

Yep.

Oh, and that GURPS Fallout fan-page assigns too low a Bulk for the FN, pistols have to be pretty small to qualify for Bulk 1.

That makes sense, I guess, since you can't really have a Bulk 0. :-/

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

If you want to use the more detailed rules, it's not unreasonable for SJGames to expect you to pay for them. Hans Christian Vorstich did an amazing amount of work researching and writing GURPS High-Tech. You'll find it useful beyond the weapons statistics, there's lots of rules for TL5-8 equipment, not just stats but rules for using them too. Any game that features lots of gunplay in particular can definitely use that book.

That's where you lose me. Gun stats "compatible" with GURPS Lite must use the generic stats in GURPS Lite, anything more complicated than that isn't GURPS Lite anymore. Isn't the whole point of using GURPS Lite (except as a free demo) to not be bogged down with the full complexity of GURPS?

Okay, I think I get the point. Basically, everything that I determined was (mostly) correct and any additional stats not included in GURPS Lite Fourth Edition (such as bulk and recoil) are unnecessary for me to factor in.

EDIT: I have another query. If the skill "Surgery" were to have been included in GURPS Lite Fourth Edition, what would be the difficulty of skill? There's no "Very Hard" option available in the point cost table for skill levels, so I was considering making it a "Hard" skill.

EDIT 2: Never mind, I figured out how to figure out the point cost for a Very Hard skill at various levels using the table and common sense.