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 12-05-2012, 01:01 PM #1 sclose1970   Join Date: Oct 2007 Wait Maneuver clarification In the case of a character taking a Wait Maneuver, with the intention of stepping and attacking as soon his opponent closes, does the Waiting character always strike first? Example: Fighter A is armed with a 1 yard reach weapon, and his opponent, Fighter B, has a 2 yard reach weapon. Fighter A is Waiting for Fighter B to close within 2 yards so that he may Step and Attack. Assuming that Fighter B started 3 yards away, and Stepped and Attacked on his turn, closing to 2 yards, would Fighter A (1.) proceed with his triggered action first, before Fighter B resolved his attack, or (2.) have to parry Fighter B's attack before Stepping and Attacking? If (1.) does Fighter B still get his attack, assuming he was not injured enough to affect his attack, even though Fighter A is now at the "wrong" range? In addition, would any of the rules from Cascading Waits (MA pg. 108) and/or A Matter of Inches (MA pg. 110) be needed in this particular scenario?
12-05-2012, 01:28 PM   #2
Ulzgoroth

Join Date: Jul 2008
Re: Wait Maneuver clarification

Quote:
 Originally Posted by sclose1970 In the case of a character taking a Wait Maneuver, with the intention of stepping and attacking as soon his opponent closes, does the Waiting character always strike first? Example: Fighter A is armed with a 1 yard reach weapon, and his opponent, Fighter B, has a 2 yard reach weapon. Fighter A is Waiting for Fighter B to close within 2 yards so that he may Step and Attack. Assuming that Fighter B started 3 yards away, and Stepped and Attacked on his turn, closing to 2 yards, would Fighter A (1.) proceed with his triggered action first, before Fighter B resolved his attack, or (2.) have to parry Fighter B's attack before Stepping and Attacking? If (1.) does Fighter B still get his attack, assuming he was not injured enough to affect his attack, even though Fighter A is now at the "wrong" range? In addition, would any of the rules from Cascading Waits (MA pg. 108) and/or A Matter of Inches (MA pg. 110) be needed in this particular scenario?
Wait means you have the initiative. There is nothing the opponent can do to take that away.

Cascading Waits only applies if there are multiple waits being triggered. Likewise I think A Matter of Inches only has bearing in cases where there is actually some question of who acts first, which there is not when one of two characters triggers the other's Wait.
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.

12-05-2012, 03:40 PM   #3
David Johnston2

Join Date: Dec 2007
Re: Wait Maneuver clarification

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth Wait means you have the initiative. There is nothing the opponent can do to take that away.
I wouldn't say _nothing_. If the opponent can do something totally unexpected, then surprise trumps wait. Mind you it would have to be something like teleporting when the waiter doesn't even know you have the power, or saying "now" and having your unknown ally fall out of the ceiling on him.

 12-05-2012, 09:18 PM #4 JP42   Join Date: Dec 2012 Re: Wait Maneuver clarification This is interesting to me as well. If Fighter B's "Step & Attack" is the action that triggers the wait going off, can Fighter A wait for him to Step, and then trigger his wait, or does he have to either a) trigger off of the intention to "Step & Attack" or wait for the whole "Step & Attack" to complete? Basically, is it the Step that triggers the wait, or is "Step & Attack" an atomic action?
12-05-2012, 09:43 PM   #5
Mr_Sandman

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: L.I., NY
Re: Wait Maneuver clarification

Quote:
 Originally Posted by JP42 This is interesting to me as well. If Fighter B's "Step & Attack" is the action that triggers the wait going off, can Fighter A wait for him to Step, and then trigger his wait, or does he have to either a) trigger off of the intention to "Step & Attack" or wait for the whole "Step & Attack" to complete? Basically, is it the Step that triggers the wait, or is "Step & Attack" an atomic action?
The trigger for the wait is up to the one who declares a wait. If the trigger is "when he steps within 2 hexes of me, I step towards him and attack", it happens as soon as the target steps within that range, no matter what maneuver is in progress.

It's not absolutely realistic, but from a game perspective the wait-er is delaying action to spring it when it will have the best effect and take the opponent off guard. You could see it as fancy foot work, or a timing trick.

12-05-2012, 10:59 PM   #6
Ulzgoroth

Join Date: Jul 2008
Re: Wait Maneuver clarification

Quote:
 Originally Posted by David Johnston2 I wouldn't say _nothing_. If the opponent can do something totally unexpected, then surprise trumps wait. Mind you it would have to be something like teleporting when the waiter doesn't even know you have the power, or saying "now" and having your unknown ally fall out of the ceiling on him.
Well, they can bypass your initiative by doing something which, in the GM's opinion, doesn't meet the trigger you set, and potentially shut down the Wait if they incapacitate you that way.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.

12-05-2012, 11:28 PM   #7
David Johnston2

Join Date: Dec 2007
Re: Wait Maneuver clarification

Quote:
 Originally Posted by JP42 This is interesting to me as well. If Fighter B's "Step & Attack" is the action that triggers the wait going off, can Fighter A wait for him to Step, and then trigger his wait, or does he have to either a) trigger off of the intention to "Step & Attack" or wait for the whole "Step & Attack" to complete? Basically, is it the Step that triggers the wait, or is "Step & Attack" an atomic action?
Up to the character. He can wait for the attack to start, or for the character to get within reach, or announce he'll attack if the other person so much as twitches.

 12-06-2012, 04:32 AM #8 DavidSev   Join Date: Jun 2011 Re: Wait Maneuver clarification The attacker may not know what you are waiting for, but they will know you are waiting. If someone is there with their sword ready to swing, you're probably not going to go wondering into the kill-zone without thinking it through. Personally (assuming a one-on-one fight) I'd step back and call it a free evaluate. They can either eat the move-and-attack penalty or I can use my evaluate bonus to do something fancy that'd (hopefully) avoid their wait. Or an AOO Long / Great Lunge to attack from out of their range.
 12-06-2012, 02:00 PM #9 sclose1970   Join Date: Oct 2007 Re: Wait Maneuver clarification I'm thinking of making a house rule in my games that requires that a player that wishes to make use of the Wait maneuver perform the "step" portion of their action at his/her normal place in the initiative, or possibly take a small penalty to their action, say -2 if they'd like to keep their step in reserve. I really don't think it's realistic to allow someone to bypass an incoming attack that out-ranges their own just because they happen to be a tiny bit quicker. I'm hoping the aforementioned solution can take care of that. Does anyone see any possible issues with implementing that change to RAW?
12-06-2012, 02:13 PM   #10
trooper6

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Medford, MA
Re: Wait Maneuver clarification

Quote:
 Originally Posted by DavidSev The attacker may not know what you are waiting for, but they will know you are waiting. If someone is there with their sword ready to swing, you're probably not going to go wondering into the kill-zone without thinking it through. Personally (assuming a one-on-one fight) I'd step back and call it a free evaluate. They can either eat the move-and-attack penalty or I can use my evaluate bonus to do something fancy that'd (hopefully) avoid their wait. Or an AOO Long / Great Lunge to attack from out of their range.
Yup. I had a PC in an arena game and my opponent was Waiting rather than closing. I was pretty certain his Wait trigger was: the moment I step within range, Attack!

So I stayed just out of range, calmly stacked up a full evaluate bonus, and then used the Extra Effort that gives you one extra yard of range to attack then stepped back. My opponent then I started doing it again. And my opponent realized they would have to do something else, or I'd cut them up.

 Tags maneuver, reach, wait

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