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Old 06-30-2022, 08:39 PM   #31
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Default Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

So, I was also thinking, maybe this could use the "Super Effort +400%" Enhancement to kind of allow Speedsters in Supers games... It gets a little cheaper than ATR and with more stuff to it
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Old 06-30-2022, 08:58 PM   #32
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

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Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
Yeah well, in that "panel" he does 1 trillion punches thou
Sure, but there's no need to treat that as multiple actions; it's just a multi-punch innate attack.
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Old 06-30-2022, 10:43 PM   #33
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

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Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
This entire thread is a house rule. T
Sorry. It looked like you didn't understand the rules you were changing.
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Old 06-30-2022, 11:41 PM   #34
KarlKost
 
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Default Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Sure, but there's no need to treat that as multiple actions; it's just a multi-punch innate attack.
Err... No it isnt. Not technically, no. You COULD treat it as such, sure, since the end effect is almost the same - but it isnt the same thou. When Flash is fighting the Reversed Flash, it's pretty much like a "conventional" fight.

Also, even treating his punches as innate attacks dont account for his capability to run several times around the world in a mere second, or when in such a comics panel he finish 5000 task at the "same time" in a mere moment
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Old 06-30-2022, 11:57 PM   #35
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

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Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post

Also, even treating his punches as innate attacks dont account for his capability to run several times around the world in a mere second, or when in such a comics panel he finish 5000 task at the "same time" in a mere moment
Running around the world in X time is movement. Completing non-comabt tasks is that ATR enahncement from Powers.
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Old 07-01-2022, 12:23 AM   #36
KarlKost
 
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Default Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Running around the world in X time is movement. Completing non-comabt tasks is that ATR enahncement from Powers.
OR
It's just simple ATR
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Old 07-01-2022, 10:10 AM   #37
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

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Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
OR
It's just simple ATR
<shrug>If you don't care how many thousands of pts more it costs or how poorly it fits the source material.

Running around the world or stacking up 5000 bricks is something that is not central to a Flash-like character's concept and indeed is little more than a cherry on top of that concept. It shouldn't cost thousands of pts and it doesn't need to be done in millisecond by millisecond detail.
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Old 07-01-2022, 11:10 AM   #38
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Running around the world or stacking up 5000 bricks is something that is not central to a Flash-like character's concept.
I disagree that it's not central, but it's something that should be covered by a 'superspeed tricks' array of powers, not by a vast ATR.
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Old 07-01-2022, 11:16 AM   #39
KarlKost
 
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Default Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

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<shrug>If you don't care how many thousands of pts more it costs or how poorly it fits the source material.

Running around the world or stacking up 5000 bricks is something that is not central to a Flash-like character's concept and indeed is little more than a cherry on top of that concept. It shouldn't cost thousands of pts and it doesn't need to be done in millisecond by millisecond detail.
The Flash would cost a good billion CPs nonetheless. Enhanced Move is 20CP/lvl, I wont even do the Math for how much that alone would cost to reach (more than) light speed, but EM is "only" 1/5 of ATR. Now, I dont remember by head what's the discount on ATR for being non combat only - but even if it were -100%, that wouldnt cover much, since the Flash still need another two +100% Enhancements from Gurps Supers - I dont remember their names exactly and Im lazy right now to search, but the first is "super acceleration" - that is, you can reach max speed instantaneously in a very non Newtonian way, and the second is "non conservation of momentum", which is even more non Newtonian and allows making curves instantly without needing to maneuver or to desaccelerate or allowing you to stop from max speed to zero instantly. So that alone would already be +100% (it's in fact more) just for ATR, pumping it's price to over 200 CP per level just for doing tons of non combat stuff.

If we're felling funny, considering HT 20 and DX 20 (Basic Move 10), I'll round yards for meters (each yard is 0.91 something meters) as per Gurps recommendations, and the light speed being (more or less) 300 millions of meters per second, that means that the Flash would need 30 millions of levels for Enhanced Move alone, which would cost 600 millions of CP alone.

Now, the modified non combat ATR would cost (more than) 200 CP per level. So, maybe you dont want him to build castles at light speed (althought he does), so maybe "just" 100.000 non combat actions per turn would do the trick; that alone would be another 20 millions CP.

And now you finally add your innate attack on top of it, which granted, would pale in insignificance to the above costs.

The Flash is completely broken and not replicable in a balanced way for a Gurps game, unless the game is set in players with absurdly different CP levels; the Flash is even more broken than Superman, and there's very few "people" in either Marvel or DC comics that would cost more than him.

Edit: I didnt even considered a few other of his absurdities, like moving so fast that he can vibrate his molecules fast enough to allow him to go over walls (that one is way cheaper than any of the above thou, "only" 80 CP for Insubstantiality), running so fast that he actually goes ABOVE the speed of light and thus he can basically freely travel in time (again, much cheaper than the above) and being able to cross dimensions (like the "Speed Force Realm") and alternate realities, and even being faster than teleportation across the entire UNIVERSE, some other nonsense.
The Reverse Flash, in one story, took a bullet in his BRAIN, from one side to the other, by the "Batman" - it wasnt Bruce thou, it's an alternate reality upon which Bruce Wayne was killed by an unkown criminal in the alley instead of his parents, so his father became the "Batman", but a brutal executioner of criminals (and Bruce's mother became The Joker). Anyway, after taking a bullet in the head, the Reversed Flash managed to remain alive just by "slowing time", so the micro seconds it would take any normal human to shut down and die by taking a bullet in the head, he managed to "multiply" by an undefined amount of time. And many many other examples of absurd

Last edited by KarlKost; 07-01-2022 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 07-01-2022, 11:41 AM   #40
zoncxs
 
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Default Re: Turn of Combat Reformulated - Velocity

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Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
The Flash would cost a good billion CPs nonetheless....

The Flash (Power only)

ATR! 10 [4000]
Enhanced Move (Second Nature) 20 [1000]

He can run at 57,671,680 yards a second, or 117,964,800 mph (11 turns running at 5,242,880 yards per maneuver).

If he needs to REALLY run, ATR! gives him 1000pts to use how ever he can explain. Thats another 20 levels of EM.

Speed then becomes 5,497,558,138,880 per second. 18337.88 times faster than the speed of light!

And that is assuming a BM of 5!

Each level of ATR! gives another 100pts AND another maneuver.

All that for 5000pts to start.

No where near a billion.
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