Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip > The Fantasy Trip: House Rules

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-07-2022, 10:32 AM   #1
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Differentiating Weapon Types

TFT gives polearms their own special abilities--jabbing and the charge bonus, but the differences between the Axe/Mace and Sword families is largely one of flavor and price. One could argue that the tactical difference is that some of in the Axe/Mace category can be thrown, but that only applies to about half of them. What might be done to make choosing one type of weapon over another a tactical decision?

Here are some ideas. I would entertain only giving one benefit to any weapon type:
  • Axe/Mace weapons ignore a point of armor (rationale: these were traditionally thought of as "can opener" weapons)
  • Axe/Mace weapons that deal 8+ points of damage before armor reduction force a 3/DX save for target to avoid falling (rationale: a heavy weight swung at the end of a lever creates a lot of momentum)
  • Axe/Mace weapons that deal 8+ points of damage before armor reduction force a 3/ST save for target to avoid immediate 1-hex forced retreat (rationale: ditto)
  • Swords have a pseudo-Quick Draw built in, and can be used to attack at -3DX on the turn they are readied (rationale: pulling a blade from a scabbard or sheath is simpler than unlashing)
  • Swords can be used at -3DX in a defensive attack that subtracts 2 from a single foe's attack against the figure (rationale: blades are balanced and ideal for combined parry/strikes)

What do you think about these, and what are your ideas about how to make simple yet interesting differences between weapon types?
__________________
* * * *
Anthony Shostak
myriangia.wordpress.com

Last edited by Shostak; 04-07-2022 at 04:53 PM. Reason: Typos
Shostak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2022, 10:38 AM   #2
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Differentiating Weapon Types

Weapon damage in general is too high for the few hitpoints the PCs have (and armor is underpowered) so try this:


https://www.hcobb.com/tft/new_spells.html#Combat
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2022, 11:25 AM   #3
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Differentiating Weapon Types

The most obvious issue with the weapons table right now is that there's really no reason to take Ax/Mace. Where the damages differ with Swords, the sword has a half point average damage advantage (with higher maximum and lower minimum). Moreover, if you take Sword, you get Knife essentially for free, and having a dagger skill is very useful in HTH.

Shostak's suggestions would distinguish the two. So would Henry's, but the effects of his suggestion is rather drastic.

Henry's suggestion certainly would make combat a lot less deadly. An ST 9 character with a cutting weapon won't do any damage at all to someone who stops three hits, unless he happens to get a critical hit. (I'm ignoring expertise, obviously.)

Henry, have you actually played this way? Just how long did it take? To take your own example (Chain + Small Shield), a broadsword has to roll 9 or better to do any damage at all. That's damage less than a third of the time. Average damage per hit (ignoring critical hits) in RAW figures at 3.111, while with your suggestion, that drops to 0.55. That battle has just gotten a lot longer.

I'm not saying this isn't realistic (how would I know?) but it sure does seem a lot less interesting for those involved. A DX 12 figure wielding a broadsword against a ST 10 guy armored as above will take roughly 25 turns to put him down if he's willing to stand there and take it. That's compared to 5 turns with RAW.

(Per these rules, a guy using a Morningstar -- 2d+1, but not cutting damage -- would do a lot better than the sword user, taking only 7 turns to put down our figure. The bastard sword wielder -- also 2d+1 -- would take 14 turns.)

At lower armor to damage ratios, I reckon the advantage would be to the cutting weapon user.
phiwum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2022, 12:08 PM   #4
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Differentiating Weapon Types

Yes, historically swords didn't cut through chainmail, much less plate. Hence hammers and such.

A poleaxe should be able to switch between the three damage types at whim.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2022, 12:14 PM   #5
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Differentiating Weapon Types

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Yes, historically swords didn't cut through chainmail, much less plate. Hence hammers and such.

A poleaxe should be able to switch between the three damage types at whim.
... and probably become unready after use, but that is more detail than I'd want to go into in a TFT game.
__________________
* * * *
Anthony Shostak
myriangia.wordpress.com
Shostak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2022, 12:37 PM   #6
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Differentiating Weapon Types

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Yes, historically swords didn't cut through chainmail, much less plate. Hence hammers and such.

A poleaxe should be able to switch between the three damage types at whim.
I'll be you don't really think the poleaxe should count as internal damage, like fire, acid and poison.
phiwum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2022, 01:34 PM   #7
hcobb
 
hcobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Differentiating Weapon Types

Quote:
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I'll be you don't really think the poleaxe should count as internal damage, like fire, acid and poison.
Spear, hammer, and axe.
__________________
-HJC
hcobb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2022, 02:07 PM   #8
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Boston area
Default Re: Differentiating Weapon Types

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Spear, hammer, and axe.
Oh, I see. You referred to the "three damage types", which I took to mean the three categories mentioned on your web page: Internal (acid, fire, poison, etc.), Cutting (swords, axes, etc.) and Other (just etc.).
phiwum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2022, 07:39 PM   #9
Steve Plambeck
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Default Re: Differentiating Weapon Types

I desire more differentiation between swords and the hafted weapons as well (pole arms and missile weapons already being quite different from each of the others).

On the side, I've played with tweeking the Weapon table damages such that every hafted weapon averages higher damage than a sword requiring the same ST. I think some already do, but I'd want it more consistent and more pronounced. So the character of hafted weapons becomes more ooomph per unit ST -- simple.

Then the trick I've considered for swords, to give them a compensatory feature, might well be to allow a sword to always make one attack and one parry per turn, at no great DX penalty if any for the doubled amount of action. Thus, while one must choose between attack or defend with the other weapons, with a sword you always get both.

It starts to look mighty complicated though when the existing Fencing and Two Weapon talents come into play, so I continue to just think about it.
__________________
"I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I'm right."

Last edited by Steve Plambeck; 04-08-2022 at 01:47 AM. Reason: spelling typos
Steve Plambeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2022, 08:13 PM   #10
Shostak
 
Shostak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
Default Re: Differentiating Weapon Types

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck View Post

Then the trick I've considered for swords, to give them a compensatory feature, might well be to allow a sword to always make one attack and one parry per turn, at no great DX penalty if any for the doubles amount of action.
Attacking and defending in the same turn with no penalty is probably overpowered.
__________________
* * * *
Anthony Shostak
myriangia.wordpress.com
Shostak is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
combat, damage, special abilities, tactical, traits

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.