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Old 10-19-2021, 09:39 AM   #1
FenrisLoki
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Default Water Jet damage

Can someone clear up an issue for me. Reading the description of the various jet spell descriptions, it seems like water jet does crushing damage *in addition to* knockback. Am I reading this right? I have the 1st printing of 4th ed Magic and saw no corrections in the errata.

I am largely basing this on the fact that Snow Jet in the blue Cost section lists "The jet does 1d of knockback for every point put into it."

Water Jet says in the same blue Cost section "Does 1d damage for each point put into it." The main text of the spell states "It does knockback to all targets, and damage to creatures of flame; it can kill or knock down flying swarm creatures."

Does this mean the 1d damage only applies to creatures of flame? Seems like it but I wanted some clarification. Snow jet says the same, but it's blue Cost section lists the damage differently.
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Old 10-19-2021, 09:48 AM   #2
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Default Re: Water Jet damage

That's the way I'd interpret it: 1d of damage, knockback only except versus fire elementals, etc.

Snow Jet should also probably harm fire elementals, come to think of it.
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Old 10-19-2021, 11:38 AM   #3
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Default Re: Water Jet damage

I always interpret it as "knock back damage", not as regular crushing damage.


But I agree it may be interpreted as crushing damage and do knock back as regular crushing damage.
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Old 10-19-2021, 02:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Water Jet damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
Snow Jet should also probably harm fire elementals, come to think of it.
It does. Now if you want something weird, Steam Jet does 1d-1 'scalding' damage (presumably burning that doesn't set fires) per point, does knockback, blinds on face hits, etc. and does double damage to creatures of fire or ice.

So being very hot water means it does more damage to very hot things. Actually, steam of the sort of pressure that would cause knockback would be doing cutting damage, not burn damage unless quite diffuse (but then it wouldn't penetrate heavy clothing, let alone armour). OTOH, this is no more weird than the way magical lightning works.
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Old 10-19-2021, 10:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: Water Jet damage

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
It does. Now if you want something weird, Steam Jet does 1d-1 'scalding' damage (presumably burning that doesn't set fires) per point, does knockback, blinds on face hits, etc. and does double damage to creatures of fire or ice.
GURPS Magic is full of small inconsistencies and annoying omissions.

Unless the GM is willing to do a major overhaul to make spells from different colleges consistent in their effects, it's best to ignore foolish notions such as "consistency," "logic," or "laws of physics." It is magic, after all!

If the GM does do an overhaul, they need to look at game effects of a given vs. energy cost first, so that spells with equivalent prerequisite counts are approximately similar in effectiveness. For example, jet spells that do more damage than normal need to have drawbacks which make them slightly less desirable, while spells that do less damage need to have one or more benefits.
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Old 10-20-2021, 01:19 AM   #6
Plane
 
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Default Re: Water Jet damage

I figure it means it operates as "No wounding" unless you are made of fire.

I don't really like that though... isn't the whole reason fire creatures have Vulnerability x 2 from water attacks so that -100 +100% = taking damage from normally undamaging things?
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Old 10-20-2021, 10:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Water Jet damage

Eh, I don't know, not having actually tried it or done the maths I don't know what happens if you squirt boiling water at a fire. Could go either way. Evaporation is a thing.
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Old 10-20-2021, 10:55 AM   #8
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Default Re: Water Jet damage

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Originally Posted by Inky View Post
Eh, I don't know, not having actually tried it or done the maths I don't know what happens if you squirt boiling water at a fire. Could go either way. Evaporation is a thing.
It's not 'boiling water' it's steam hot enough to do a significant amount of burning damage.
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Old 10-20-2021, 03:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Water Jet damage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inky View Post
Eh, I don't know, not having actually tried it or done the maths I don't know what happens if you squirt boiling water at a fire. Could go either way. Evaporation is a thing.
Seems like steam is effective, but only in a closed space:

https://www.fireengineering.com/lead...th-steam/#gref

Not a definitive answer, but one of the better ones I found, most of which point to the same conclusion.

If magical steam is virtually injected into a firey creature, then it's not unreasonable to suggest it would be damaging due to the water content.
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Old 10-20-2021, 06:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: Water Jet damage

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Originally Posted by Farmer View Post
Seems like steam is effective, but only in a closed space:

https://www.fireengineering.com/lead...th-steam/#gref

Not a definitive answer, but one of the better ones I found, most of which point to the same conclusion.

If magical steam is virtually injected into a firey creature, then it's not unreasonable to suggest it would be damaging due to the water content.
That's by using steam to displace the air, thus removing oxygen from the fire. A steam jet won't do that, and if this can do direct damage to a fire being, so should quite a few other things that currently don't. Note that Steam Jet does 1d-1 damage per point to everything that would normally take damage from a burning attack, which is nearly as much as from a Flame Jet, and even the 1-point level is doing more than a normal fire does (seeing as the jet isn't hitting the whole body). We're talking 'escaped from a high-pressure steam boiler' steam here, not 'you put your hand over the spout of your kettle' steam, the sort that is invisible until it mixes and cools at the end of the jet, and which cuts through objects and people like a cutting jet.

If it wasn't magical, and thus following such rules as 'it's made from water, so it hurts things of fire' rather than physics as we understand it, it should be doing cutting damage and be invisible.
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