Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-2021, 06:24 PM   #41
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Skills - maybe this game isn't what I'm looking for

Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
That's a easy one as the Technique already exists:
Technique (Off-Hand Weapon Training); Weapon skill-4; cap - Weapon skill
Technique (Feint): Weapon skill; cap - Weapon skill+4

This is ignoring any possible Cinematic Rules that might be in play.
...I think we're talking at cross-purposes somehow? What I said was that the entire point is that Westly and Inigo don't have Off Hand Weapon Training - they use their off hand to intentionally handicap themselves (until they decide to shed the limitation and go all-out).

(Also, shouldn't really plug the superseded and deficient Off-Hand Weapon Training technique. It was mispriced compared to Ambidextrous, and replaced by a perk that fully buys off the penalty.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Actually it was only Easy to Hard mental skills that were cheaper. Except for the 1/2 point option the cost all DX skills and the Very Hard Mental skills cost the exact same in classic as in 4e. This makes conversion somewhat easier as you only have to worry about IQ skills and 1/2 points.
Again completely at cross-purposes. Some things being cheaper in 3e is irrelevant to this.

I thought there was a thing where the price per point of skills could scale exponentially without limit? But that might be some nonsense I confabulated, my signature disclaimer about 3e ignorance is still mostly accurate.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2021, 06:35 PM   #42
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Skills - maybe this game isn't what I'm looking for

Yes, the OHW technique was just really odd. One of the reasons why they had to get rid of it though was the Perk of Technique Mastery, as someone could have legally taken Technique Mastery and raised OHW to Skill+4 for an extra 4 CP (meaning that they could have effectively gained 16 CP of value for 10 CP of investment). Since they could have also taken Technique Master for Ground Fighting, and therefore Ground Fighting to Skill+4, you could have ended up with a character that attacked and defended better with their offhand while lying down than with their dominant hand while standing up.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2021, 07:25 PM   #43
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: Skills - maybe this game isn't what I'm looking for

Quote:
Originally Posted by adaman14 View Post
I plan on playing in other GURPS games as far as I can find them. This is what I meant about the community being bleak. There just isn't very many GURPS games out there.
That's pretty much what you'll find for any game that isn't D&D or D&D-derived. But there are fans of all kinds of systems out there if you look for them.

Quote:
What I want is a low fantasy game where the eyes and focus of the event is pointed toward the adventure and toward the world. The characters are not driving the game but rather experiencing it. I will not even have backstories for characters or in the least the backstory will be minimal. For sure the adventures are not built around the character. Disadvantages/advantages/quirks and to some extent skills and techniques seem to be pointing the lens on the character and the character sheet rather than the adventure. I am currently experiencing a game where it feels like I am trying to avoid failures rather than adventuring.
It sounds to me like you're looking for a fairly cinematic, low-ish powered game. Dungeon Fantasy might be too high-powered for your tastes. The D&D tropes in DF are intentionally very strong, and starting DF characters are already superheroes.

I suggest a game where characters start at around 125 points or so, where bonus character points are easily earned by accomplishing adventuring goals, and where lots of cinematic options are used. Most exotic and supernatural traits are only allowed in racial templates, but Magery and Power Investiture should be available. Keep the disadvantage limit fairly low, maybe a maximum of 25 or 30 points or so. This should keep the character sheets fairly simple and to the point. And remember only to roll for things that matter.
Stormcrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2021, 07:54 PM   #44
adaman14
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Default Re: Skills - maybe this game isn't what I'm looking for

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
I suggest a game where characters start at around 125 points or so, where bonus character points are easily earned by accomplishing adventuring goals, and where lots of cinematic options are used. Most exotic and supernatural traits are only allowed in racial templates, but Magery and Power Investiture should be available. Keep the disadvantage limit fairly low, maybe a maximum of 25 or 30 points or so. This should keep the character sheets fairly simple and to the point. And remember only to roll for things that matter.
YES! This is what I am working towards doing. I like it.
adaman14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2021, 11:08 PM   #45
tbone
 
tbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Skills - maybe this game isn't what I'm looking for

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
And remember only to roll for things that matter.
Yeah, I was about to say that.

If it's not a dangerous, climactic, or other serious situation, there's no need to get serious about the roll and its mods. Or even roll at all.

Like saddling up for a little ride. It's a quiet moment; the party's making dinner and inventorying their stuff. The knight says "I'm going to ride over to that ridge and see what's there." There's no raging battle, no bandit ambush, no flying lava bombs, just a bored knight and a grazing palfrey.

All the GM needs to do (if anything) is note that the knight's spent a point and has a Riding skill of 12: clearly, she's been in the saddle plenty of times and can handle a mount competently. "Okay, you ride up there without incident. You see . . ."

Dice can still happen, if the table's in the mood to play around. Someone - the knight's player, or the GM, or another player looking to get some banter going – might call for a quick skill roll for the fun of it. No mods, no complications, just a roll.

The GM can respond to success with "Looking smooth!", or describe "failure" as "Whoa, a little shaky on the mount there, but you're fine." Even a crit fail on this zero-stress action might mean "Oops, you needed a second try to get up there. Be careful!". That gets followed by some expected ribbing from the party thief, which earns a comeback of "Yeah? How you doing with the stew there? Let's see a Cooking roll, buddy . . ."

This sort of stuff happens all the time. In short: If it's not serious business, don't bother with serious mechanics; just eyeball the stat, or give it a simple roll, and make up something appropriate. (That falls under the official "Roll and Shout" rule of play, I believe. Though in practice, it's often "Roll and Make Jokes". : )
__________________
T Bone
GURPS stuff and more at the Games Diner:
http://www.gamesdiner.com
| Twitter: @Gamesdiner | RSS: http://www.gamesdiner.com/categories/general/feed | Site updates
(Latest goods on the site: What’s interesting about roleplaying games, in which I note a few things I've always found notable about this hobby.)
tbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2021, 12:36 AM   #46
RedMattis
 
RedMattis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
Default Re: Skills - maybe this game isn't what I'm looking for

Quote:
Originally Posted by adaman14 View Post
The characters are not driving the game but rather experiencing it. I will not even have backstories for characters or in the least the backstory will be minimal. For sure the adventures are not built around the character.
Why no backstories for the characters though?

Some backstory which explains why the characters are adventuring together can help make roleplaying easier for characters even if (hypothetically) the characters are forced together and forward by some narrative.

F.ex. one character being the twin sister of the other, and that character having fought in a war alongside another older character. Perhaps the twins are driven by dreams of future greatness, while the older soldier is trying to keep them safe, but also interested in seeing where it all leads.

That sort of thing creates more natural-feeling party-dynamics than the typical "An elf, a dwarf, and a bard sat at an inn", in my experience.
__________________
"Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared"
RedMattis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2021, 05:35 AM   #47
adaman14
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Default Re: Skills - maybe this game isn't what I'm looking for

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMattis View Post
Why no backstories for the characters though?

Some backstory which explains why the characters are adventuring together can help make roleplaying easier for characters even if (hypothetically) the characters are forced together and forward by some narrative.

F.ex. one character being the twin sister of the other, and that character having fought in a war alongside another older character. Perhaps the twins are driven by dreams of future greatness, while the older soldier is trying to keep them safe, but also interested in seeing where it all leads.

That sort of thing creates more natural-feeling party-dynamics than the typical "An elf, a dwarf, and a bard sat at an inn", in my experience.
Your example qualifies as "or in the least the backstory will be minimal" and that is about all of a starting backstory required (in my games of course - to each their own). The characters can fill in a little more detail after they experience the world a little more and to be honest, but that time most players don't really care about a detailed backstory anymore.
adaman14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2021, 08:07 AM   #48
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: Skills - maybe this game isn't what I'm looking for

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
Most exotic and supernatural traits are only allowed in racial templates, but Magery and Power Investiture should be available.
Actually, what I should have said here is that most exotic traits are only allowed in racial templates, mundane traits are feely available, and the GM will decide which supernatural traits are available.

That way, the GM can decide players can choose to do things like Channeling spirits or having a Higher Purpose without them being part of a racial template, but can exclude effects not desired ("Sorry, Dominance doesn't exist in this setting").
Stormcrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2021, 08:26 AM   #49
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: Skills - maybe this game isn't what I'm looking for

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
And remember only to roll for things that matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone View Post
Yeah, I was about to say that.
This is one of the most important things, so I want to call it out and toss my weight behind it. I realize that some players will insist on rolling, so it's useful to have the right passage handy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by p. B343

When to Roll

To avoid bogging down the game in endless die rolls, the GM should only require a success roll if there is a chance of meaningful failure or gainful success. In particular, the GM should require success rolls when . . .

• A PC's health, wealth, friends, reputation, or equipment are at risk. This includes chases, combat (even if the target is stationary and at point-blank range!), espionage, thievery, and similar "adventuring" activities.
• A PC stands to gain allies, information, new abilities, social standing, or wealth.

The GM should not require rolls for . . .

• Utterly trivial tasks, such as crossing the street, driving into town, feeding the dog, finding the corner store, or turning on the computer.
• Daily work at a mundane, nonadventuring job. (To evaluate job performance, make monthly "job rolls"; see Jobs, p. 516.)
"Utterly trivial tasks" even gets a canonical definition on p. B345: The roll is at +10 or better. Don't forget that you can reach +10 easily! "Most mundane tasks" are at +4 or +5, so if there's also lots of time available – enough to get the +5 for that on p. B346 – you'll typically be at +10. In short, if a task offers no sense of adventure (+5 for difficulty) and you can just quietly fiddle around until you get it right (+5 for time), you don't roll; it's like "taking 20." Since most skill rolls take just a few seconds, even at 30× the usual time, you're only talking about a minute or two.

Also be on the lookout for places where no roll is needed! Mounting Up (p. B396) calls for no roll to mount a horse normally – only if you want to "leap astride" in one turn of combat time. Lots of specific tasks work this way, and it's important to note that the specific always trumps the general (e.g., a skill description, which is as general as it comes).
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News]
Kromm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2021, 08:30 AM   #50
RedMattis
 
RedMattis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
Default Re: Skills - maybe this game isn't what I'm looking for

Quote:
Originally Posted by adaman14 View Post
Your example qualifies as "or in the least the backstory will be minimal" and that is about all of a starting backstory required (in my games of course - to each their own). The characters can fill in a little more detail after they experience the world a little more and to be honest, but that time most players don't really care about a detailed backstory anymore.
You make it sound like there has been some strange cultural swing towards players not caring about backstories. I have no idea where you are getting this from.

This is just me personally, but I wouldn't permit a player to sit at my table for anything but the most mindless of dungeon delving unless they can come up with at least a basic backstory that sounds slightly interesting. I have no interest in being the GM for Adventurer McDude who just materialized in an adventuring party one day to kick goblins and solve death-trap puzzles.
__________________
"Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared"
RedMattis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
skills, success rolls

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.