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Old 11-21-2020, 08:56 AM   #41
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
It was a bit shaky, yes. Fencing combat worked very well, a bit too well.

.
Been looking at 3e Swashbuclers lately and I find that even with the Fencing Parry calculated from2/3rds skill rather than 1/2 I still wanted the PD1 from a Basket Hilt and the additional PD 1 from a leather doublet to go along with the +1 or +2 from Body Language Skill. Oh, and since we're talking about Thrustign attacks I could use the Dodge bonus from Boxing (though I might have to pay a UB for knowing Boxing).

As I tried to indicate 3e tended to accumulate kludges to try and deal with fighting without armor and shield.
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Old 11-21-2020, 11:40 AM   #42
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
"PD" was "Passive Defense". Even if you took no Active Defense you could roll agaisnt your Passive Defense to stop an attack. With PD3 or 4 from a shield and another 3 or 4 from armor (even without magic) it wasn't a huge chcne but it ws better than nothing.

The important bit was that when you did take an Active Defense you added your PD to your total defense and rolled v. that. There was no "add" to your Parry in the basic calculations so if you had Broadsword-16 and Combat Reflexes your total Parry was still only 9 or less if you had no armor or shield. With armor and shield you could easily hit 15 or less.

You will note from the above example that with combat normalized for users of both armor and shields, combat without these aids worked very, very poorly. 3e sprouted a lot of kludges over the years trying to mitigate these problems but gained more problems with the solutions. 4e came as close to jettisoning the concept of PD as it could retaining only DB you gain from a shield or magic.

If you wonder what you were suppsed to viaulize PD doing that was asomehat mysterious. When you got to UT it actually was Deflector Shields granting you or your spaceship a bonus to all active Defenses.

I don't miss PD and I doubt many others do either. Not having to deal with PD is a good reason to not go back to 3e.

Was dodge still Half DX +3?
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Old 11-21-2020, 01:17 PM   #43
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

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Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
Was dodge still Half DX +3?
I don't think Dodge is that now. At least in RAW.

Dodge was Basic Speed + PD + Combat Reflexes and maybe Enhanced Dodge. that +3 you're so used to is the repalcement for PD.
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Old 11-22-2020, 02:39 AM   #44
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
I don't think Dodge is that now. At least in RAW.

Dodge was Basic Speed + PD + Combat Reflexes and maybe Enhanced Dodge. that +3 you're so used to is the repalcement for PD.
good point!

And yes sorry Sp+3
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