Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-15-2020, 07:24 PM   #11
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Like if a 1d impaling (like an arrow: x2 injury) were made narrower (normal piercing: x1 injury) then wouldn't you expect there to be an armor divisor of 2 to compensate?
And indeed, that is exactly what happens - see the box "Bodkin Points (TL3)" (B277).
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 05:50 AM   #12
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
And indeed, that is exactly what happens - see the box "Bodkin Points (TL3)" (B277).
ah, should we term them "bodkin spears" then?

now wondering if there are any bodkin swords
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 06:27 AM   #13
ericbsmith
 
ericbsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Binghamton, NY, USA. Near the river Styx in the 5th Circle.
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
now wondering if there are any bodkin swords
Historically, if you were going to kill a knight in full armor you'd use a long dagger and go for chinks in armor, usually after you'd already knocked him down and sometimes while he was being held down by 2-3 other guys. So you could go All Out Attack (Determined), multiple times if necessary.

However, historically most men in armor were worth more as ransom than they were dead, so if you could overcome them you took them prisoner instead of killing them. Plus, Knights were minor nobles (and most higher Nobles wore full armor suits), and it just wouldn't do for a bunch of peasants to kill a noble.
__________________
Eric B. Smith GURPS Data File Coordinator
GURPSLand
I shall pull the pin from this healing grenade and...
Kaboom-baya.
ericbsmith is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 11:20 AM   #14
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
ah, should we term them "bodkin spears" then?

now wondering if there are any bodkin swords
The rules for bodkin points aren't terribly realistic (reducing impact area isn't useless, but it does have limited effect because the energy cost of creating the initial hole is larger than the cost of enlarging the hole, and a narrow head only avoids the enlarging part), but there are certainly narrow stabbing weapons. There's a limit to how far you can take that without your weapon just breaking, though.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 11:40 AM   #15
Tyneras
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky, USA
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

As I understand it, armor piercing weapons and hardened armor do exist and matter at low TLs, but are generally below GURPS resolution for those factors. The result is that you either have weapons that are too effective, or leave it out completely. If GURPS was a computer game then having AD or Hardness of 1.2 or 1.45 would be fine since the math is the CPUs problem, but it is not.
Tyneras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 12:15 PM   #16
zoncxs
 
zoncxs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: earth....I think.
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorenant View Post
I'm referring to optional rules (or house rules) about adjusting muscle-powered damage, weapon types, armor types and how they interact with each other. ...
I have my own house rules that changes damage how damage scales and where it starts. This house rule cascades to other rules.

Basically swing damage becomes equal to ST/4 with fractions being +1(.25), +2(.5), or +1d-1(.75). Damage Resistance cost 2cp per level. etc.

This gives you, assuming ST 10 is our base, damage being the square root of basic lift as a ration to ST 10. So someone with ST 20 does twice the amount of damage on average compared to someone with ST 10. ST 20 has a basic lift of 80lbs which is 4 times that of ST 10 of 20lbs, sqrt of 4 is 2. With my formula ST 10 does 2.5, or 2d+2, damage. ST 20 does 5d damage.

This scale continues and does not break. Someone with ST 100 does 10 times the damage of someone with ST 10, ST 1000 is 100 times, etc.

You have to rescale known weapon damages (Firearms), though. Which is easy, just convert dice to whole numbers and addons to decimal like above. A pistol that does 2d+2 damage becomes 2.5, times that by 2.5 and you get 6.25 which becomes 6d+1.

This means that for someone to be able to deal the same damage as that pistol they would need an ST of at least 25 to match it. Normal GURPS damage scale, they would need only ST 16.
zoncxs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 02:21 PM   #17
Edges
 
Edges's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GMT-5
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

Wow. Multiplying firearm damage by 2.5! That would scare my players.

We have used something similar though (leaving firearm damage as is or sometimes using survivable guns):
ST/12=d(th), ST/8=d(sw).
We put together some intermediate values too which I can look up if someone's interested.

EDIT: We also cap realistic human ST at 16.

Last edited by Edges; 11-16-2020 at 02:27 PM.
Edges is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 02:36 PM   #18
RyanW
 
RyanW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

I am trying what I call "Know Your Own Conditional Damage"

Base Dam = (ST-10)/3
Base HP = (ST+2)/3
__________________
RyanW
My name is spelled without a B. Like Minnesota.
RyanW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 03:28 PM   #19
zoncxs
 
zoncxs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: earth....I think.
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edges View Post
Wow. Multiplying firearm damage by 2.5! That would scare my players.

...
Why would it scare them? Nothing changes, the ratio of everything remains the same as it is now. The big difference is that players do LESS damage than compared to before.

A pistol that deals 2d+2 (9 average damage) takes 1 or 2 hits to take a ST 10 HP 10 target to less than 0 HP.

ST 10 gives 1d swing damage (3.5 average) and HP 10, so on average it takes 3 hits to reduce to 0 HP.

ST 14 gives 2d swing damage (7 average) and HP 14, so on average it takes 2 hits to reduce to 0 HP.

ST 18 gives 3d swing damage (10.5 average) and HP 18, so on average it takes 2 hits to reduce to 0 HP.

ST 22 gives 4d swing damage (14 average) and HP 22, so on average it takes 2 hits to reduce to 0 HP.


My rules makes it:

A pistol that deals 6d+1 (22 average damage) takes 1 or 2 hits to take a ST 10 HP 25 target to less than 0 HP.

ST 10 gives 2d+2 swing damage (9 average) and HP 25, so on average it takes 3 hits to reduce to 0 HP.

ST 14 gives 3d+2 swing damage (12.5 average) and HP 35, so on average it takes 3 hits to reduce to 0 HP.

ST 18 gives 4d+2 swing damage (16 average) and HP 45, so on average it takes 3 hits to reduce to 0 HP.

ST 22 gives 5d+2 swing damage (19.5 average) and HP 55, so on average it takes 3 hits to reduce to 0 HP.

The amount of hits needed is the same, we just have a finer detail in it. But more importantly, players will not be able to deal the same amount of damage as decent guns with a bow. With my system in a non powers game, ST is limited to 18 at most. Every point of ST means something now too, you get an increase in damage at every level so it is worth it, your HP goes up by 2 or 3 making it harder to take you down, etc.


But, really, firearm damage SHOULD scare people, after all, the point of guns is to kill, and if you can shrug off the damage, or even deal more damage with a melee weapon, then something is off. My fix was not aimed at that but at making damage be in ratio with Basic Lift and all of a sudden, EVERYTHING else gets fixed.
zoncxs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2020, 03:38 PM   #20
Edges
 
Edges's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GMT-5
Default Re: Which optional rules do you use for muscle-powered weapons and armors?

Are you also multiplying HP by 2.5? I didn't see that in your post.

If so, that is a pretty big change. There are more ways to get hurt than muscle-powered weapons and guns.
Edges is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
combat, optional rules

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.