Can you learn Empathy?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

What's the proper build for someone who specializes in detecting written lies, and/or figuring the emotional state of a person through written communication? (Like Foster does in one or more episodes of Lie To Me)?

I think that Psychology would be fine, to be honest. Nothing says that the "interview" can't be written, that the "tests" can't be writing samples, or that the "file" can't be provided by the subject himself. I'd probably allow it to default to Writing-6 instead of IQ-6 for a trained writer, though. I've guessed correctly at many, many things about writers over my years as an editor – age, education level, health, nationality, politics, sexual orientation, etc. – and of course "knowing when the writer is lying about deadlines" is the classic editor skill (and "being diplomatic about revealing this" is another, so I'd let Diplomacy and Fast-Talk default to Writing instead of IQ, at the same penalties).

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I think that Psychology would be fine, to be honest. Nothing says that the "interview" can't be written, that the "tests" can't be writing samples, or that the "file" can't be provided by the subject himself. I'd probably allow it to default to Writing-6 instead of IQ-6 for a trained writer, though. I've guessed correctly at many, many things about writers over my years as an editor – age, education level, health, nationality, politics, sexual orientation, etc. – and of course "knowing when the writer is lying about deadlines" is the classic editor skill (and "being diplomatic about revealing this" is another, so I'd let Diplomacy and Fast-Talk default to Writing instead of IQ, at the same penalties).

Just note that I'm referring to stuff like analyzing correspondence between two people - not necessarily a test where the psychologist has total control over the questions asked. Anyway, is the skill of Detect Lies totally dependent on hearing? Or are there alternatives? Can Deaf people with Lip Reading use a skill that is closer to visual (or textual) Detect Lies than to Body Language or Psychology?

[Kromm]

Body Language is "visual Detect Lies" – that's its primary niche. Deaf people would learn that. When it comes to lie detection, Detect Lies works on hearing; Body Language, on sight; and Empathy, on touch/meeting.

And I stand by Psychology for analyzing writing. There are real-world psychoanalysts who attempt to diagnose and classify historical figures based entirely on their surviving writings. It's an application of the same skill in a new medium, not a different skill. It might be subject to a penalty until one gains familiarity, of course.

In deliberate spy-vs.-spy duels of disinformation, of course, the liar uses Propaganda and the detector uses Intelligence Analysis. See p. B201. It's important to note that this is specifically for nonpersonal and organizational use, and doesn't reveal psychology.

[Edges]

The hearing and sight limitations aside, Body Language seems to do everything Detect lies can do and more*. Yet it's an easier skill to learn. Also, being lied to on the phone or over the radio is so much less common in RPGs than being lied to in person (particularly at low TLs). Detect Lies seem like it would rarely be worth it. I had always countered this by saying that Body Language's lie detection ability was more vague than that of Detect Lies. But now Kromm seems to say otherwise. I can understand eavesdropping through a door or while pretending not to look (like w/Observation) but these times when Detect Lies would be needed still seem pretty rare.

Is Body Language meant to be so good?

*Kromm's "illustration" for Detect Lies, for instance, could have been in the Body Language listing as well but the revers is not true.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Edges

Is Body Language meant to be so good?

*Kromm's "illustration" for Detect Lies, for instance, could have been in the Body Language listing as well but the revers is not true.

Body Language has more penalties and fewer bonuses. For example, Empathy doesn't boost it.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Body Language has more penalties and fewer bonuses. For example, Empathy doesn't boost it.

I noticed that. Do you have more examples?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Edges

I noticed that. Do you have more examples?

Detect Lies isn't penalised by the person wearing enveloping clothing or masks. Heck, you'd get a Body Language penalty just from interviewing someone on botox.

[Kromm]

Yeah, Body Language rarely works at full skill unless you always meet people naked under bright lights. Clothes, darkness, a strategically held briefcase, etc. are all it takes for the skill to become merely so-so. In my secret-agent game, Detect Lies – nearly always at +3 for Empathy and with Smooth Operator bonuses – is the overwhelming favorite not just for the bonuses, but for the lack of penalties. And setting aside the bonus/penalty issue, spies listen to conversations via wiretaps and bugs all the time, and often talk to mysterious tipsters on the phone . . .

[David Johnston2]

In fact I was converting the M&M module "Time of Crisis", and believe you me, Detect Lies boosted by Empathy would be totally worth it by comparison with Body Language what with the apes, and the masks.

[panton41]

Where might Sociology fall into the mix? I've always considered it more or less "psychology applied to large groups of people" which has been proved many times isn't the same as when psychology is applied to individuals or even small groups. (Of course where "small group" ends and "large group" begins is very vague and an apartment building might be considered a "small group" in one case where an equal population neighborhood might be "large" in another.)