Examples of 4e Combat

[Captain Joy]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

4e Campaigns p 420: "Knockdown and Stunning [snip] Modifiers: -5 for a major wound to the face or vitals) [snip]"

Ah! Then maybe it would be better to change "(-5 for Hit Location: Vitals)" to "(-5 for major wound to vitals)". Or, maybe don't change it and assume not everybody is as dense as me.

[mook]

Howdy Folks!

Been a long time, but I've given the Combat Examples page a little love and corrected all of the errors reported since the last time I updated. For the future:

• First and foremost I want to begin posting some very basic and streamlined examples that do not use all optional rules - so hopefully there will be some 'quick and dirty' combats posted soon.
• I'm afraid I still haven't posted an example submitted by The Bearded One well over a year ago! Naturally I'd like to get that done (sorry Bearded One!)
• Many of the PDF versions of the examples are not as up-to-date as the web versions. Until I get that done please be aware that if you download a PDF it may still contain known errors that have already been corrected!

Changes made are as follows:

Originally Posted by pecete

Not sure about this, but in melee 4 turn 2 Zach Red tries to parry the shield rush of Arthur Green, my question is is the slam atack of AG considered a Heavy weapon for parry purpouses(B376)?

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

Yes. It is equivalent to your ST.

Melee Four, Turn Two - Added a check for weapon breakage. (Just attempting a Parry triggers a check for weapon breakage right? You still check even if the Parry was unsuccessful?)

Originally Posted by Dinadon

Ranged Combat 4 -Turn 6
1. Zach's last turn was to recover from stun, the defense penalty for stun lasts until his next turn. Thus he should be at a further penalty.
2. Even without that, he's rolled 10 more than his effective score. This is a critical failure, and should at least be indicated as such.

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

Ehh, I'm not so sure at that. I guess the sentance in the rules can be read kind of ambiguously, but it seems to say that you recover from the stun when you make your HT roll (And the end of your turn). Since the -4 is a property of being stunned, that would mean you wouldn't have that penalty after having recovered from stun, even if you haven't gotten to your next turn yet. The "subsequent turns" part seems to be referring to the "act normally" (It seems odd to "recover from stuns" on "subsequent turns").

Though looking at that made me notice something I hadn't really payed attention to... Because a stun forces you to take a Do Nothing maneuver, you wouldn't have to roll to remain concious when you're stunned (Such as his action in turn 5). Not that it mattered much for that fight, because even on a Do Nothing maneuver, you have to roll to stay concious if you attempt a defense that turn, though it would delay the unconciousness roll until his first attempted defense, in turn 6.

Ranged Four, Turns Five and Six - Pretty sure Phoenix_Dragon is correct about the timing of the penalty, so no change there, though I did add a note about the critical failure for rolling 10 or more over his target. Also moved the HT check to avoid unconsciousness down into Turn Six.

Originally Posted by gilbone

This is a long thread, someone has probably already mentioned this...

Ranged Combat 4, Turn 4

"Also, as he now has less than 1/3 his HP, his Move and Dodge are halved.

Am I wrong or should he only move 2 yards, being at 1/2 Move?

Ranged Four, Turn Four - Lowered Zach's Move from 5 yards to 2 yards.

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

Ranged Combat, Example One, Turn Seven:
I don't have my books with me, but I don't think a location penalty should be applied to the HT roll against Knockdown and Stunning.

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

4e Campaigns p 420: "Knockdown and Stunning [snip] Modifiers: -5 for a major wound to the face or vitals) [snip]"

Originally Posted by Captain Joy

Ah! Then maybe it would be better to change "(-5 for Hit Location: Vitals)" to "(-5 for major wound to vitals)". Or, maybe don't change it and assume not everybody is as dense as me.

Ranged One, Turn Seven - Changed to "-5 for Major Wound to the Vitals" for clarity.

Originally Posted by Philomath

(from my forums) I just noticed this also (close combat 2 turn 6). Knockdown (B420) says you drop anything you were holding.

Close Combat Two, Turn Six - Changed the example so Arthur does lose his Grapple when he suffers Knockdown. Also added an entry to the FAQ. "if you were holding anything, you drop it" seems like it would include holding other people as well as things?

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

Close Combat #4, Turn #2:
"Dodge is Basic Move +3" should read "Dodge is Basic Speed +3," with Zach's Dodge adjusted accordingly.

Originally Posted by trooper6

Zach's Parry is half his skill +3 +1 (for combat reflexes). Missing Legs gives a -6 to any skill the required the use of the legs, the descriptor text of Crippled Legs points out that this includes all melee and unarmed combat skills. So Zach's Karate skill is dropped by 6. This makes his Parry 6 (half the new Karate skill of 12) +3 +1, then add the conditional modifiers (+3 Retreat, -3 Prone, +2 Feverish Defense)...or 12. Which would have meant that he missed that Parry.

Close Combat Four, Turn Two - Made both of these corrections (though I did change Zach's Parry roll so he would still succeed).

Close Combat Four, Turn Three - Made a note that since Zach failed his unarmed parry against a weapon, Arthur could choose to either strike his original target or the arm Zach attempted to parry with (B377).

[Ragitsu]

Spell combat. Awesome.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by mook

Been a long time, but I've given the Combat Examples page a little love and corrected all of the errors reported since the last time I updated.

Awesome, thanks! :)

Melee 4, Turn 5: Zach should either be at a -2 to hit because he is still in a Kneeling posture (Basic p 551), or using his Step to rise to a Standing posture in addition to the change in facing (p 368), but it doesn't alter the outcome.

[mook]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

Awesome, thanks! :)

Melee 4, Turn 5: Zach should either be at a -2 to hit because he is still in a Kneeling posture (Basic p 551), or using his Step to rise to a Standing posture in addition to the change in facing (p 368), but it doesn't alter the outcome.

Thanks for the catch Gold & Appel Inc! Fixed.

[mook]

Tinkered for a while tonight with a new example that doesn't have all the options turned on. A lot of folks have asked for "quick and dirty" GURPS examples, this is my attempt.

Basically, this is the original Melee One, now named Melee One - Full Options.

And this is Melee One pared waaaay down, named Melee One - Basic.

Differences from the Full Options Example:

• No Flexible Armor and Blunt Trauma (B379).
• No Hit Locations - all hits are to the torso (B398).
• No Major Wound or Knockdown and Stunning (B420) in Turn Four.
• No check for Fatigue Loss (B426) after the battle.
• No Bleeding (B420) after the battle.

Just poking around for a little feedback before I start making more changes. I considered maybe taking out the Shock penalties too, but that seemed just a little too basic. Thoughts?

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by mook

Just poking around for a little feedback before I start making more changes. I considered maybe taking out the Shock penalties too, but that seemed just a little too basic. Thoughts?

I don't think shock is optional.

[mook]

Originally Posted by Stripe

I don't think shock is optional.

True, but neither are any of the other rules listed, with the sole exception of Bleeding. But I think many (most?) groups don't use 'em ... so I'm trying to find where I should draw the line of what constitutes "bare minimum GURPS" (since in the larger sense, all rules are optional).

Not exactly sure how quick and dirty the "quick and dirty" examples should be.

[mlangsdorf]

I'd think that Knockdown and Stunning are essential parts of the GURPS experience. The rest of the stuff you mentioned can safely be left aside, I think.

[mook]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

I'd think that Knockdown and Stunning are essential parts of the GURPS experience. The rest of the stuff you mentioned can safely be left aside, I think.

I'd think that Knockdown and Stunning are essential too, but I think those looking for 'quick and dirty' GURPS are trying to emulate the "I bash him until his hit points are below 0 and he dies" type of mechanic. Gonna leave 'em out for now.

I was hoping to have Basic examples for all four Melee examples to post, but unfortunately it took a lot longer than I'd anticipated - I only finished number Two.

Here's the original Melee Two, now named Melee Two - Full Options.
Here's Melee Two - Basic.

As always, appreciate any other eyes that pass over 'em. I'm worried about introducing new errors into examples that have already been community vetted!