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Old 03-27-2016, 04:43 PM   #1
VariousRen
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Default [Basic] Shield Penetration

Pg. 484 includes rules for damage to shields, and states that "Damage in excess of cover DR penetrates the shield and possibly injures [the target]" and then points to the rules for over penetration. The general over penetration rules on page 408 say that a piercing, impaling, or tight beam burning ranged attack can over penetrate (leaving out crushing and cutting)

The phrasing of the shield damage rules and the fact that the general overpen rules only talk about range attacks make me wonder if crushing and cutting attacks are allowed to penetrate shields to hit the person behind them. It seems to me that a sword blow should be able to cut through a light shield into the actual target, but I'm not sure if this is the intention
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Old 03-27-2016, 08:27 PM   #2
evileeyore
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Default Re: [Basic] Shield Penetration

Under the optional Damage to Shield rules (pg 484) it says:

"A powerful blow may punch through your shield! The shield acts as cover, with “cover DR” equal to its DR + (HP/4). Damage in excess of cover DR penetrates the shield and possibly injures you; see Overpenetration (p. 408). When using hit locations, roll 1d: on 1-2, apply damage to your shield arm; on 3-6, apply it to the location targeted by the attacker."

To me "A powerful blow" means just that, any blow that A) hits the shield squarely (defense made by the Defense Bonus of the shield) and B) exceeds the Cover DR of the Shield (DR+(HP/4)).

For a Medium Shield that's 17 Cover DR, a large Shield has 24 Cover DR. If an attack is doing more damage than that, then yes the Shield user should take damage (whatever penetrates the Cover DR).


While Overpenetration pg 408 (which is not considered 'optional') begins by specifically calling out "piercing, impaling, or tight-beam burning damage with a ranged attack" it also goes on to say:

"Similarly, a powerful attack might go right through cover (see Cover, above) or a shield (see Damage to Shields, p. 484) – or even penetrate a building or vehicle, damaging it and its occupants."

Which, like a 'powerful blow' above, sounds to me like "Any powerful attack" regardless of source or damage type should use Overpenetration Rules.


I'll have to remember this for if my DF Barbarian Ogre ever swings her Oversized Axe/Mace for max or near max damage... at 5d+9, there's a good chance she'll Overpenetrate...
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Old 03-27-2016, 10:49 PM   #3
VariousRen
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Shield Penetration

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
Under the optional Damage to Shield rules (pg 484) it says:

"A powerful blow may punch through your shield! The shield acts as cover, with “cover DR” equal to its DR + (HP/4). Damage in excess of cover DR penetrates the shield and possibly injures you; see Overpenetration (p. 408). When using hit locations, roll 1d: on 1-2, apply damage to your shield arm; on 3-6, apply it to the location targeted by the attacker."

To me "A powerful blow" means just that, any blow that A) hits the shield squarely (defense made by the Defense Bonus of the shield) and B) exceeds the Cover DR of the Shield (DR+(HP/4)).

For a Medium Shield that's 17 Cover DR, a large Shield has 24 Cover DR. If an attack is doing more damage than that, then yes the Shield user should take damage (whatever penetrates the Cover DR).


While Overpenetration pg 408 (which is not considered 'optional') begins by specifically calling out "piercing, impaling, or tight-beam burning damage with a ranged attack" it also goes on to say:

"Similarly, a powerful attack might go right through cover (see Cover, above) or a shield (see Damage to Shields, p. 484) – or even penetrate a building or vehicle, damaging it and its occupants."

Which, like a 'powerful blow' above, sounds to me like "Any powerful attack" regardless of source or damage type should use Overpenetration Rules.


I'll have to remember this for if my DF Barbarian Ogre ever swings her Oversized Axe/Mace for max or near max damage... at 5d+9, there's a good chance she'll Overpenetrate...
That's what I'm thinking as well, which really helps even out some of the low tech shields in terms of DR/HP/Weight. low DR and HP doesn't just mean it breaks earlier, it also means it might give part way and let damage through.
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