[SUPERS] Help to build my first Supers

[Carlos]

This is the first time I'm playing the Supers genre for GURPS. I'm used to play GURPS, specially DF games (my preferred setting) and I even have GURPS Powers and GURPS Supers, but I still would like to receive some hints from experienced players of this kind of genre.

We have 1000 character points with -100 disadvantages and -5 points from perks.

Power level is limited to I-scale => Maximum dice of Innate Attack or basic swing damage: 15d. Maximum DR: 50. Maximum Damage Reduction factor: 10. Maximum level of ST with Super-Effort: +10 (+100).

I was thinking to use the Archetype template (GURPS Supers p. 42) and the Brick template (GURPS Supers p. 44-45) as models to help me build my character.

I want to make a tough guy, similar to Hugo Danner with some few differences (like flying advantage instead of Super Jump). So here comes some questions:

1. Is it worthy to buy HT 20 to have high resistance to death, stunning (including blows in face and head), to stay conscious with negative HP, for high FP score (for Super-ST's FP expenditure), high skill level with Lifting skill (a important skill for such character) and other metabolic issue? The idea here is to represent someone with amazing levels of stamina.
   
2. Is Damage Resistance a good way to deal with damage (specially high damage from heavy artillery and other supers) in terms of cost-benefit? Damage Reduction seens to be a better option... or perhaps having both...
   
3. Is DR with tough skin limitation a good idea for a super with such high durability?
   
4. How to deal with the FP expenditure for ST with Super-Effort? Buy extra FP as the Archtype template does? If so, is there any possibility to recover FP faster than normal rate (1/10 min)?
   
5. How supers with outstanding levels of ST can gain benefit to use special weapons (like Thor's Mjolnir or Hulk's Sword as Horsemen of Apocalipse) if there's the STx3 damage limit? Fighting unarmed with such huge ST doesn't mean more damage?
   
6. Can a supers have Karate instead of Brawling to have a better damage bonus per die or that's too munchkinism to be allowed?

I think that's all for now. Waiting for answers.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Carlos

I was thinking to use the Archetype template (GURPS Supers p. 42) and the Brick template (GURPS Supers p. 44-45) as models to help me build my character.

Smart. Using the templates is a good idea; it's easy to get lost when spending 1,000 points.

I want to make a tough guy, similar to Hugo Danner with some few differences (like flying advantage instead of Super Jump).

Okay, good. So you're basically making a flying brick. It's important to have a focus -- you can spread your 1,000 points around into a dozen different areas of competence, but then you'll find that you're not really "super" in any of them.

[*]Is it worthy to buy HT 20 to have high resistance to death, stunning (including blows in face and head), to stay conscious with negative HP, for high FP score (for Super-ST's FP expenditure), high skill level with Lifting skill (a important skill for such character) and other metabolic issue? The idea here is to represent someone with amazing levels of stamina.

HT is a very important attribute for you, but you don't necessarily need HT 20. You could probably do just fine with HT 16-18. In particular, if you end up removing the FP cost for Super-ST (see below), that FP isn't so necessary.

[*]Is Damage Resistance a good way to deal with damage (specially high damage from heavy artillery and other supers) in terms of cost-benefit? Damage Reduction seens to be a better option... or perhaps having both...

In general, both are a good idea. Damage Reduction 10 is awesome if you can afford it, but it doesn't help if someone is "nickel-and-dime"ing you to death with a hail of small arms fire. Damage Reduction 10 + DR 10 is a nice combo. Add more DR if you can afford to, but don't skimp on the Damage Reduction.

[*]Is DR with tough skin limitation a good idea for a super with such high durability?

Sure. Blunt trauma is rarely a major issue. You're vulnerable to contact agents that way, but everyone needs a vulnerability, right?

[*]How to deal with the FP expenditure for ST with Super-Effort? Buy extra FP as the Archtype template does? If so, is there any possibility to recover FP faster than normal rate (1/10 min)?

Yes, you can buy Regeneration (Fatigue Only), but that's not really worth it since you'd have to spend 100 points on it to see an in-combat benefit. You'd be better off spending the extra 70 points to add Cosmic (Can buy Reduced Fatigue Cost) (+50%) and Reduced Fatigue Cost 1 (+20%) to your 10 levels of Super-ST. That way, you can use your Super-ST as if it were normal ST, without incurring any FP cost.

[*]How supers with outstanding levels of ST can gain benefit to use special weapons (like Thor's Mjolnir or Hulk's Sword as Horsemen of Apocalipse) if there's the STx3 damage limit? Fighting unarmed with such huge ST doesn't mean more damage?

Supers has some rules for this, and I also have rules addressing this here: http://www.mygurps.com/r_minst.html

[*]Can a supers have Karate instead of Brawling to have a better damage bonus per die or that's too munchkinism to be allowed?

Absolutely! There's no reason at all not to take advantage of your high ST. ST is expensive, so take every benefit you can get -- if possible, see if your GM will let you buy Striker (Limb) from Martial Arts for even more damage.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Absolutely! There's no reason at all not to take advantage of your high ST. ST is expensive, so take every benefit you can get -- if possible, see if your GM will let you buy Striker (Limb) from Martial Arts for even more damage.

In addition to PK's sound advice, I recommend looking at the esoteric skills like Power Blow and Breaking Blow; they pay off really well for a brick. Buy them with the Unusual Training perk, which lets you get them without Trained by a Master subject to a suitable restriction on use; for a brick, this is often "can't use them against a normal human, only against vehicles, huge creatures, and tough supers." The theory is, for example, that the Hulk doesn't hit a normal man with his full strength not because he's ethically restrained, but because he can't get the necessary adrenalin surge against so trivial a foe.

GURPS Supers discusses these in Chapter 2, iirc.

Bill Stoddard

[Carlos]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Okay, good. So you're basically making a flying brick. It's important to have a focus -- you can spread your 1,000 points around into a dozen different areas of competence, but then you'll find that you're not really "super" in any of them.

Sure! And what I have in mind is to build a Supers with superhuman strength, durability and stamina, with some accelerated healing factor (regular regeneration: 25) and some increased move speed (ground).

Most bricks have some levels of Super Jump, so I think it would be better have Flight. It's basically Hugo Danne with flight instead of Super Jump.

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

HT is a very important attribute for you, but you don't necessarily need HT 20. You could probably do just fine with HT 16-18. In particular, if you end up removing the FP cost for Super-ST (see below), that FP isn't so necessary.

Fine. But one of the reasons why I think it could be a good idea to have HT 20 is because of the Lifting skill. Instead of spending lot of points on it to have a very high skill level (20 or more), I think it would be better to raise HT since it also counts to resist stuning and other threats resistible with HT.

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

In general, both are a good idea. Damage Reduction 10 is awesome if you can afford it, but it doesn't help if someone is "nickel-and-dime"ing you to death with a hail of small arms fire. Damage Reduction 10 + DR 10 is a nice combo. Add more DR if you can afford to, but don't skimp on the Damage Reduction.

Sure. Blunt trauma is rarely a major issue. You're vulnerable to contact agents that way, but everyone needs a vulnerability, right?

I-scale limits DR up to 50. So do you think it's a good idea to have "Damage Resistance 50 (Tough Skin, -40%; Supers, -10%) [125 pts]" in order to be a very tough guy?

And what contact agents do you mean?

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Yes, you can buy Regeneration (Fatigue Only), but that's not really worth it since you'd have to spend 100 points on it to see an in-combat benefit. You'd be better off spending the extra 70 points to add Cosmic (Can buy Reduced Fatigue Cost) (+50%) and Reduced Fatigue Cost 1 (+20%) to your 10 levels of Super-ST. That way, you can use your Super-ST as if it were normal ST, without incurring any FP cost.

Wow, it seems a nice option! I'm not sure if the GM will allow it, anyway...

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Supers has some rules for this, and I also have rules addressing this here: http://www.mygurps.com/r_minst.html

Nice rules. Is this rules the same rules contained on GURPS Supers?

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Absolutely! There's no reason at all not to take advantage of your high ST. ST is expensive, so take every benefit you can get -- if possible, see if your GM will let you buy Striker (Limb) from Martial Arts for even more damage.

I'll try to convince the GM to allow it.

[Yami Fowl]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Yes, you can buy Regeneration (Fatigue Only), but that's not really worth it since you'd have to spend 100 points on it to see an in-combat benefit. You'd be better off spending the extra 70 points to add Cosmic (Can buy Reduced Fatigue Cost) (+50%) and Reduced Fatigue Cost 1 (+20%) to your 10 levels of Super-ST. That way, you can use your Super-ST as if it were normal ST, without incurring any FP cost.

I believe that would work for one use per round, but using your Super-ST incurs on a 1 FP cost per attack, so if you use more than one attack I guess you will have to pay for it.

It seems a bit unbalanced if you don't have to.

[Carlos]

Originally Posted by whswhs

In addition to PK's sound advice, I recommend looking at the esoteric skills like Power Blow and Breaking Blow; they pay off really well for a brick. Buy them with the Unusual Training perk, which lets you get them without Trained by a Master subject to a suitable restriction on use; for a brick, this is often "can't use them against a normal human, only against vehicles, huge creatures, and tough supers." The theory is, for example, that the Hulk doesn't hit a normal man with his full strength not because he's ethically restrained, but because he can't get the necessary adrenalin surge against so trivial a foe.

GURPS Supers discusses these in Chapter 2, iirc.

Bill Stoddard

One of the players asked me if I could combine ST with Super-Effort (from now on, I'll just call it "Super-ST") with Power Blow. I said that it would not be worthy since Super-ST costs 25 points (in fact it costs 40, as you said on the other thread). Now I'm starting to wonder if it's worthy or not.

A Supers with ST 30/120 can double or triple his Super-ST with Power Blow?

If so, what skill level would be pratically usable? Power Blow 21?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Carlos

One of the players asked me if I could combine ST with Super-Effort (from now on, I'll just call it "Super-ST") with Power Blow. I said that it would not be worthy since Super-ST costs 25 points (in fact it costs 40, as you said on the other thread). Now I'm starting to wonder if it's worthy or not.

A Supers with ST 30/120 can double or triple his Super-ST with Power Blow?

If so, what skill level would be pratically usable? Power Blow 21?

You need a high skill to avoid the massive penalties for instant use, or even use in one second (the classic supers "haymaker"). Skill 21 might be worth the cost. The super you describe can use Power Blow to go to ST 30/240, NOT to ST 60/24,000,000!

Bill Stoddard

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Carlos

How to deal with the FP expenditure for ST with Super-Effort? Buy extra FP as the Archtype template does? If so, is there any possibility to recover FP faster than normal rate (1/10 min)?

If your GM doesn't allow the eliminated FP cost on Super ST, try talking him into an Energy Reserve (ER). Expended ER points are regained in tandem with FP, so you'll be able to use your Super ST again twice as quickly. As an added bonus, ER is not drained by Fatigue attacks.

[Carlos]

Originally Posted by whswhs

You need a high skill to avoid the massive penalties for instant use, or even use in one second (the classic supers "haymaker"). Skill 21 might be worth the cost. The super you describe can use Power Blow to go to ST 30/240, NOT to ST 60/24,000,000!

Bill Stoddard

Ok, so with ST 120 a supers can spend 1 FP to deal a 13d+25 (with Karate), how much damage can a Supers cause spending 2 FP to use ST 120 with Power blow and Karate bonus?

By the way, that makes HT 20 (hence more FP) even more desirable, don't you think?

And what do you think about A) Strike (body parts) to increase damage unarmed damage and B) Attribute Substitution (Power Blow based on HT) perk?

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Carlos

And what contact agents do you mean?

"Contact agents" refers to attacks that work by touching the skin or just barely piercing it, such as a syringe that contains a knockout drug, or a dart that's poisoned, or a Typhoid Mary type who can infect you with a fingernail scratch. Tough Skin means that even though you're resistant to serious damage, those sorts of attacks can still pass through ... you still have skin that can be pricked and poked, not a body of marble that will break off such trivial impediments.