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Old 05-01-2021, 04:17 PM   #61
TippetsTX
 
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Default Re: Glamor

I think Henry is extrapolating from the bridge example on page 139 (ITL). An illusionary knife can no more cut a real rope to free someone than an illusionary bridge can allow a figure to defy gravity if they try to stand on it. TBH, I can't really imagine that knife scenario in-game, though.
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Last edited by TippetsTX; 05-01-2021 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 05-01-2021, 05:00 PM   #62
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Glamor

I create an illusion of a flaming sword and beat the green slime to death with it.

Illusions hurt humans because humans are magical creatures.
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Old 05-01-2021, 05:19 PM   #63
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Glamor

Quote:
Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
I think Henry is extrapolating from the bridge example on page 139 (ITL). An illusionary knife can no more cut a real rope to free someone than an illusionary bridge can allow a figure to defy gravity if the try to stand on it. TBH, I can't really imagine that knife scenario in-game, though.
Except that the bridge example is in the same paragraph that the hand-weapons exception is mentioned. It says, "most inanimate illusions are quite intangible," (Bolding mine). The exceptions to that are fire, wall, shadow, Magic Rope and hand-weapons.

So, you're good to cut the rope with an illusory dagger, but not with an illusory steak knife. (Kidding.)
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Old 05-01-2021, 05:26 PM   #64
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Default Re: Glamor

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
I create an illusion of a flaming sword and beat the green slime to death with it.

Illusions hurt humans because humans are magical creatures.
Not sure what you're getting at, Henry.

If you mean there's an apparent inconsistency with illusions not affecting mindless critters and illusory weapons behaving like the real thing, yes, I guess you're right. If it comes up in a game, I see no principled way to resolve the inconsistency, so I'd go with my gut and say illusionary weapons (and fire, etc.) behave just like the real thing with the exception that they don't affect critters with IQ 0 or 1.

I don't have any reason for that and you could just as well say that illusions don't affect any mindless critters except for illusions of fire, etc. I don't see a reason to take one resolution of the inconsistency over the other, so I chose what felt right to me.

I don't know that I'd allow illusions of flaming swords, personally, for the same reason there are limits on the characters that can be conjured up as illusions.

As far as humans (and other critters with minds) being magic and that's why illusions hurt them, sure, why not? Kinda how I see it.
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Old 05-01-2021, 07:08 PM   #65
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Default Re: Glamor

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Shostak seems too shy to advertise his addled musings, so let me do it. He wrote a good piece on his website about illusions and glamor. He hasn't changed the way I think of them, but it's a viable alternative view.

I hope, Shostak, that you don't mind the plug. I think what you wrote is relevant and interesting.

The best line in the piece: "And it [the concept of illusions] gets weirder and less consistent; although an illusion of just a dagger could actually sever a cord, the sword of an illusory soldier can’t, despite the fact that it can kill. Huh?" Perhaps that point has been discussed here, but I haven't come across it and so it was new to me.
I'm glad you enjoyed it Phiwum. Illusions are weird enough without being so inconsistent. I suspect that most will keep to the RAW version of illusions, but I do find that nerfing them down a bit actually makes things more fun.
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