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Old 07-24-2021, 11:02 AM   #1
JulianLW
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Default Impulse Buys for FOA and other GM Rolls

I've been looking at Impulse Buys and wondering:

Should Impulse Points be allowed to influence appearance rolls for Allies (see pages 8 and 9 of Impulse Buys for some pertinent discussion of making a random NPC appear) made by the GM at the start of a session? What about appearance rolls for Enemies or Secrets? Other GM rolls?

It's worth noting that buying success on a self-control roll is one of the first places (the very first?) in Basic where spending CP for effects is mentioned.

Would you allow these kinds of rolls to be influenced simply with the "Buying Effect" options (page 6 of IB)? or is that too cheap? (Note: Buying reactions is expressly forbidden here...)

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
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Old 07-24-2021, 03:28 PM   #2
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Impulse Buys for FOA and other GM Rolls

You could, yes. I don't see how "I have an ally this session!" is more powerful than "I turn my success into a critical success on the BBEG!" More hands in combat is definitely a force multiplier though. Honestly, I've done it and it's fine.

An option I use is to just buy the ally at "always a appears" and then slap "Costs Character Points" on it. This way the player can spend an IP to make the ally appear and it makes the cost of the ally about right.

Example: A ally that is 100% of the PC's points has a base cost of 5 points. It appears constantly so that's x4, that brings the cost to 20 points. But this ability requires an IP or unspent character point to activate so we multiply it by x1/5, thus the final cost is 4 points.
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Old 07-24-2021, 03:31 PM   #3
JulianLW
 
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Default Re: Impulse Buys for FOA and other GM Rolls

Thanks for the response, Christopher!

Do you think it's reasonable to spend IP on Enemies and Secrets, too?

Spending IP on a Secrets roll seems a bit munchkin to me, but the logic is about the same as any other FOA roll.... Which is why I thought I'd ask.
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Old 07-24-2021, 03:35 PM   #4
awesomenessofme1
 
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Default Re: Impulse Buys for FOA and other GM Rolls

If anything, Secret rolls are a terrible deal for the player to spend IP on. There's only like a 10% chance of things going badly, and you don't get to know ahead of time if it's a success or failure.
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Old 07-24-2021, 03:41 PM   #5
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Default Re: Impulse Buys for FOA and other GM Rolls

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Originally Posted by JulianLW View Post
Thanks for the response, Christopher!

Do you think it's reasonable to spend IP on Enemies and Secrets, too?

Spending IP on a Secrets roll seems a bit munchkin to me, but the logic is about the same as any other FOA roll.... Which is why I thought I'd ask.
Spending points to deactivate an Enemy? Hmmm. Let's see. I think I'd use the same method as for allies - make the appearance constant, but then have it so the PC could spend points so it doesn't show up or *get* points if it does. I think that would be okay at first glance. I'd need to think about the implications a bit. Hmmm.
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Old 07-24-2021, 03:54 PM   #6
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Default Re: Impulse Buys for FOA and other GM Rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
If anything, Secret rolls are a terrible deal for the player to spend IP on. There's only like a 10% chance of things going badly, and you don't get to know ahead of time if it's a success or failure.
Well...

Secret: I sacrifice babies to the Dark Ones [-30]

Impulse Buy [5]

Still think it's a legit use of an IP?

But it's really the same logic as for any other FOA roll, isn't it? Or any other bought success?

If you multiply the cost of an Ally by 4 for Constantly available, then divide by 5 for CP-Powered, you are saying that the exchange for FOA is a -20% limitation.

But if you have one EXTRA Impulse Point earmarked (not officially dedicated to) that one Ally's appearance, then that's 15 CP to have that Ally always appear, if you count the Enhanced Recharge Rate....

So maybe Secret [-30] and Impulse Buy + Enhanced Recharge [15] is balanced.... That Secret roll happens only once each game (at 6 or less) but those 15 CP could have bought almost four levels of Karate that you'd use dozens of times in a session....
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Old 07-24-2021, 05:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: Impulse Buys for FOA and other GM Rolls

I think the important thing here is for disadvantages is the following:

* You must divide the cost of the trait by 5.
* If it has an activation number you probably want to figure out the cost of making it always available before doing the previous thing
* Players should get IP or bonus character points when activating the disadvantage to be used against them or pay points to prevent it from being used.

Thus if you had a Secret at, say -30 points you should probably figure the cost of it as -240 if it's going to come up during the first session and be discovered. (An appearance roll of 6 or less is x1/2 pts so making it Constant would be x4 pts). Then multiply that by 1/5 for it to cost CP. Honestly, looking at it I'm not sure it would be a good fit to have it cost CP like that. It's 48 points, but it's going to dominate the game each session unless the character spends 1 IP/CP so it doesn't. But that's a GM call. It might work in the right game.

I think the idea is workable, but you must exercise good judgement on certain traits so that PCs who have them don't a) become spotlight hogs and b) aren't paying points for the privilege of being disadvantaged.
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Old 07-24-2021, 05:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: Impulse Buys for FOA and other GM Rolls

A further thought on specifically Secrets costing IP/CP to invoke. You might go the route of Favor where it's a one-time disadvantage which reduces the cost against by 1/5 pts. THAT might make it more balanced since the cost would be something -9 points (I'd round up to -10 personally) and the player that has it either pays 1 IP/CP per game or it comes and then once it's out the PC gets -20 points in disadvantages.
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Old 07-24-2021, 06:21 PM   #9
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Default Re: Impulse Buys for FOA and other GM Rolls

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post
A further thought on specifically Secrets costing IP/CP to invoke. You might go the route of Favor where it's a one-time disadvantage which reduces the cost against by 1/5 pts. THAT might make it more balanced since the cost would be something -9 points (I'd round up to -10 personally) and the player that has it either pays 1 IP/CP per game or it comes and then once it's out the PC gets -20 points in disadvantages.
Yeah thats much better at avoiding the Secret being too central to the campaign.
I have the same problem with Enemy. Anytime the player opts to not spend a CP the enemy has to be dealt with and that could easily take over the campaign. So I might allow it, but it would likely be very rarely and require all the players approval.
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Old 07-24-2021, 06:52 PM   #10
JulianLW
 
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Default Re: Impulse Buys for FOA and other GM Rolls

Thanks again for the replies, y'all.

To be clear, I'm wondering if y'all think it's balanced to use an IP to avoid an Enemy appearing or a Secret coming out in a session, not in making those things appear! I almost think these ought to be treated like any other instance of buying success on a self-control roll on a disadvantage, as suggested on B121 or buying effect as described in Impulse Buys (page 6).

But because other luck-type disadvantages can't influence tables or effects or GM rolls, maybe there ought to be an extra surcharge for that?

I guess what I'm asking is, would you allow a PC in your game to spend IP or Destiny points or whatever to avoid having a Secret or an Enemy appear? And if so, how would you handle that?

Cosmic: Can change effects rolls is +50% for Luck, right? Should that be taken into consideration here? Or do you see the IP mechanic as completely different?
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