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Old 01-05-2020, 05:24 PM   #1
GWJ
 
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Default [HT] Grenades fuse

There are some fuse ranges in the table - how they should be understanded? For example fuse 4-5:

a) user decides in the moment of pulling the pin
b) user decides in the moment of buying the grenade
c) random time (50/50) - either 4 or 5 seconds

?
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Old 01-05-2020, 05:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: [HT] Grenades fuse

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Originally Posted by GWJ View Post
There are some fuse ranges in the table - how they should be understanded? For example fuse 4-5:

a) user decides in the moment of pulling the pin
b) user decides in the moment of buying the grenade
c) random time (50/50) - either 4 or 5 seconds

?
It's (C). Grenade fuses are not all that precise.
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Old 01-06-2020, 02:20 AM   #3
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Default Re: [HT] Grenades fuse

Are there any rules for thrown grenades about "how many seconds will pass before it reach the destination"? Or for bouncing after impact? :P We plan to play in tactical shooter with heavy grenade usage, so I think it will be important issue.
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Old 01-06-2020, 05:19 AM   #4
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Default Re: [HT] Grenades fuse

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Originally Posted by GWJ View Post
Are there any rules for thrown grenades about "how many seconds will pass before it reach the destination"?
That's determined by the length of the fuse.

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Or for bouncing after impact?
Scatter rules are in Basic pg 414.


For the most part in GURPS, grenade timing is handwaved to a "it explodes immediately after being thrown/fired", because in real life most people do not act as fast or as precisely as GURPS Characters do.

However, if you're implementing the full OODA loop (some sort of Per and Tactics roll each turn to properly implement a change in action), and your PCs aren't going to be acrobatically flipping away from a 4 second grenade the moment it lands, then I'd go ahead and actually count the passage of turns before a grenade explodes. If not, then I'd handwave away grenade timing. Or have enemies cook off a grenade before throwing it (so on a significant failure the grenade actually goes off in hand or during flight). Launched grenades can have 'split-second' fuses (TL 7+) and just be handwaved even in an OODA loop game.
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Old 01-06-2020, 07:34 AM   #5
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Default Re: [HT] Grenades fuse

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
That's determined by the length of the fuse.
So what, grenades with 2-3 sec fuses are flying faster than grenades with 4-5 fuses? :P Specifically, I'm thinking about situations like this:

I throw grenade. The grenade lands at somewhere near my foe (1st question - it will sit on the ground or bounce and land farther?). How much time my foe has to react somehow, before the grenade explode?

And like this: I throw grenade with 2-3 sec fuse on some great range. How to check if the grenade will reach his destination or just explode in the air?
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Old 01-06-2020, 08:28 AM   #6
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Default Re: [HT] Grenades fuse

Whether a grenade stops where it lands or bounces depends on many things, such as whether it was thrown hard or lobbed, and what ground it lands on. If it's soft forest humus, it'll just stop, but on hard concrete it'll bounce and keep going. Perhaps unfortunately this is a GM's call.

As for the timer, for those 20th century grenades given as having 4-5s fuses, that's being generous - they actually had more like a 4-7s delay in service.

If flight time really matters, I'd rule that a throw of under half the thrower's maximum distance lands at the end of their current turn, and one over that lands at the beginning of their next. The fuse would 'tick' at the start of their turn, so a 1s fuse can't be safely 'cooked off' - it'll go off in your hand.

By the way, in my experience grenades are very slow weapons in GURPS and are of little use unless one or both sides of a firefight are in solid cover and can't be forced out or shot in place. It takes a long time to get the grenade out, prep it, and throw it, and accurate placement is hard without exposure to fire.
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Old 01-07-2020, 12:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: [HT] Grenades fuse

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Originally Posted by GWJ View Post
So what, grenades with 2-3 sec fuses are flying faster than grenades with 4-5 fuses? :P Specifically, I'm thinking about situations like this:

I throw grenade. The grenade lands at somewhere near my foe (1st question - it will sit on the ground or bounce and land farther?). How much time my foe has to react somehow, before the grenade explode?

And like this: I throw grenade with 2-3 sec fuse on some great range. How to check if the grenade will reach his destination or just explode in the air?
Judging by the throwing distance formula, a person can throw a grenade somewhere around 6*sqrt(ST) yards per second (about 19 yds/sec for a ST 10 person). That's the horizontal speed needed to reach maximum throwing distance with an ideal 45 degree throw. It's a bit of a spherical cow, but a rough number is better than no number.

As far as bouncing, I'd just use the scatter rules. A failed attack roll might have been off target, or might have not taken into account the bounce. If you feel the conditions make for bouncing that is particularly hard to account for, just give an attack penalty.
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Old 01-06-2020, 11:37 AM   #8
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Default Re: [HT] Grenades fuse

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Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
For the most part in GURPS, grenade timing is handwaved to a "it explodes immediately after being thrown/fired", because in real life most people do not act as fast or as precisely as GURPS Characters do.
This isn't true at all. GURPS grenades with time fuses (most of them) go off in accordance with those time fuses from when the grenade is armed.
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Old 01-06-2020, 02:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: [HT] Grenades fuse

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So what, grenades with 2-3 sec fuses are flying faster than grenades with 4-5 fuses?
No. Generally it's handwaved because, as I said, people in real life die to grenades, but no GURPS Character will die to a grenade when they have 2-4 seconds to move out of the blast zone before it goes off.

Unless their foe properly cooked it off, in which case that was 2-4 seconds in which their foe sat around not firing at them, just holding a live grenade counting off the seconds.

Quote:
I throw grenade. The grenade lands at somewhere near my foe (1st question - it will sit on the ground or bounce and land farther?). How much time my foe has to react somehow, before the grenade explode?
If you do like most GMs and handwave it, the foe might get a Dive for Cover Dodge. If not he has a leisurely 2-4 seconds to walk away before it explodes.

It depends on the fuse length.

Quote:
And like this: I throw grenade with 2-3 sec fuse on some great range. How to check if the grenade will reach his destination or just explode in the air?
It won't. It never takes more than 1 second for thrown or fired weapons to reach their targets, baring some optional rules for extreme long-range weapons.



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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
This isn't true at all. GURPS grenades with time fuses (most of them) go off in accordance with those time fuses from when the grenade is armed.
Yeah, that's RAW. But as I noted, by RAW GURPS Character have way more acuity and reaction time in combat than real life, so most GMs handwave the timing. If you don't, I'm surprised that any character suffers from a grenade blast.
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