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Old 01-17-2012, 09:29 PM   #11
roguebfl
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Default Re: How a character who has Extra Attack and Dual Weapon Attack works?

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Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker View Post
Not exactly the purpose of the thread I know, but keep in mind that Extra Attack needs to be purchased with the Multistrike enhancement if the character wanted to use a sword (or limb) more than once in the turn.
True but Muti Strike and "Once Skill only" cancel themselves out.
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:37 AM   #12
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Default Re: How a character who has Extra Attack and Dual Weapon Attack works?

I could not turn my extra attack in: DWA in one hand and Rapid Strike on the other, resulting in -4/-4/-6/-6, right?

What I do is: in an DWA, in another AoA: -4/-4/0/0, right?

And if I do, in an DWA, in another AoA, and use another one of my AoA in a Rapid Strike could transformed into the -4/-4/-6/-6/0?
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:46 AM   #13
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Default Re: How a character who has Extra Attack and Dual Weapon Attack works?

You can only ever have ONE DWA* or ONE RS* per turn unless you have ATR. AoA just adds a flat +1 Attack.

* == In this case, 'DWA' stands for the pair of attacks provided by picking the DWA option, and RS stands for the group of attacks done with the Rapid Strike penalty (usually two).
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Old 01-19-2012, 07:57 AM   #14
roguebfl
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Default Re: How a character who has Extra Attack and Dual Weapon Attack works?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
You can only ever have ONE DWA or ONE RS per turn unless you have ATR. AoA just adds a flat +1 Attack.
it more precise to say you only have one attack swaped for either Duel Weapon attack or Rapid Strike (but not both) per maneuver. And the the All out Attack (Double) Maneuver provide 2 attacks and that Extra Attack will add and additional attack to any maneuver that proved an attack in the first place.

This was Altered Time Rate isn't an exception because it adds an additional maneuver per level to the turn
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Old 01-19-2012, 09:58 AM   #15
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Default Re: How a character who has Extra Attack and Dual Weapon Attack works?

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Originally Posted by Lucas Pchara View Post
I could not turn my extra attack in: DWA in one hand and Rapid Strike on the other, resulting in -4/-4/-6/-6, right?

What I do is: in an DWA, in another AoA: -4/-4/0/0, right?

And if I do, in an DWA, in another AoA, and use another one of my AoA in a Rapid Strike could transformed into the -4/-4/-6/-6/0?
Extra Attack adds only one attack and there really isn't any way around that. The Extra Attack isn't eligable for other Attack multiplying options. Those had to go with your first/regular/normal Attack.

The simple way to remember the rule here is that Extra Attack gives you as many Attacks as you would have gotten without it plus 1 per level of the Extra Attack Advantage. Extra Attack always gets added last. There's no way to leverage it into even more Attacks. That's just the way it's written.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:07 AM   #16
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Default Re: How a character who has Extra Attack and Dual Weapon Attack works?

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Extra Attack adds only one attack and there really isn't any way around that. The Extra Attack isn't eligable for other Attack multiplying options. Those had to go with your first/regular/normal Attack.

The simple way to remember the rule here is that Extra Attack gives you as many Attacks as you would have gotten without it plus 1 per level of the Extra Attack Advantage. Extra Attack always gets added last. There's no way to leverage it into even more Attacks. That's just the way it's written.
Well, there is - Altered Time Rate. But Altered Time Rate is a very special kind of advantage.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:15 AM   #17
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Default Re: How a character who has Extra Attack and Dual Weapon Attack works?

In a way, the limit on one DWA or one RS per turn weakens the Weapon Master and Trained by a Master advantages. I'm currently playing a DF swashbuckler with this problem. I've bought the two-weapon fighting power-up, so now I never have any reason to do Rapid Strikes! Weapon Master gives me extra damage and reduced parry penalties (which are great!), but no additional attacks, which I ordinarily think of as one of WM's more important benefits. Should WM reduce the cost of DWA to provide a similar benefit to two-weapon fighters?
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:16 AM   #18
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: How a character who has Extra Attack and Dual Weapon Attack works?

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Well, there is - Altered Time Rate. But Altered Time Rate is a very special kind of advantage.
Yes, ATR effectively gives entire extra _Turns_ rather than just Attacks. Different category.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: How a character who has Extra Attack and Dual Weapon Attack works?

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In a way, the limit on one DWA or one RS per turn weakens the Weapon Master and Trained by a Master advantages. I'm currently playing a DF swashbuckler with this problem. I've bought the two-weapon fighting power-up, so now I never have any reason to do Rapid Strikes! Weapon Master gives me extra damage and reduced parry penalties (which are great!), but no additional attacks, which I ordinarily think of as one of WM's more important benefits. Should WM reduce the cost of DWA to provide a similar benefit to two-weapon fighters?
I thought that it already did that. On re-reading, only Heroic Archer halves the penalty for DWA, while WM or TBaM only serve as prereqs for improving the technique (though a lot of realistic styles include Unusual Training perks that allow limited DWA). Honestly, I don't think it would be out of place to allow WM to halve the DWA attack penalty, and thus reduce the cost of training it.

Alternately, you could borrow a page from Two-Handed Combinations and allow Rapid Strikes to be added to a DWA - ie, two attacks at -4, three attacks at -10, four at -16, etc. With training this becomes two at -0, three at -6, four at -12. And of course these are halved with WM.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:48 AM   #20
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Default Re: How a character who has Extra Attack and Dual Weapon Attack works?

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Yes, ATR effectively gives entire extra _Turns_ rather than just Attacks. Different category.
Sort of; it gives extra maneuvers, which are mostly treated like turns, but not really. I only bring up this point because it has recently been the source of some annoyance to me.
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