Aeroduel, and Boat Wars (Hydroduel?) in 6th?

[Angrytubist]

I was just wondering what everyone thinks of including the boats, hovers, planes, and lighter-than-air craft of previous editions, and if so how it should be done. I've already stated that I think that water and aircraft should be separate from the core set, preferably boxed expansions(i.e. stretch goals for the CW kickstarter). That said I like the name "Aeroduel" for the air expansion, and while "Aquaduel" for the boats sounds good I think "Hydroduel" would be less confusing.

Although I realize it's not realistic, for the sake of a simpler design system I think all vehicle types should use the same Power-Plants within reason (cycles/trike type plants for small vehicles car plants for mediums and truck plants for large). I'd also like to say that I like seperate plant types fuel cell/gasburner/hybrid/ect. just not "car plants","boat plants", "helicopter plants","plane plants" all of which must include the other categories.

Also if a fixed scale is used in 6th edition (1"= ?) it should be the same for all vehicle types (no more "aircraft scale" or "tank scale"). If you cant do that lower the speed or range of the vehicles until it works. though I would prefer a system based on "Car Lengths" or "Vehicle Lengths".

[Angrytubist]

HYDRODUEL

Vehicles: I'd like to see boats(up to large yachts),PWCs (jetskis),submarines(again up to large yacht size",Hovercraft (all sizes)(though with a much more conventional movement system than 2.5e hovers), Barges (trailers of the sea), and Hover-barges.
Watercraft would have different means of locomotion, propellers, water jets, rotors (airboats)(within reason, I don't think a rotor powered sub would work.) this would influence dropped weapon design.

Weapons : all land vehicle weapons would work except dropped weapons (things designed to take out tires would be useless, or they'd just sink). Instead you'd need wire strands/nets to take out props, things to clog jet drives and so forth. A flaming oil slick might be useful but a plain one would not. pluse depth charges, buoy mines, and the floating and sinking grenades to go along with them. The only other weapon that would need to be added is torpedoes.

Pedestrians:would like some rules for swimmers and frogmen.

Movement would have to use the same turning key and basic mechanics of the land based game.(I'm looking at you hovercraft, neat idea, reasonable execution, more math than most want to deal with at the table.)


AERODUEL

Vehicles: I'd like to see helicopters(from ultralights to dual rotor heavy lifters), fixed-wing planes(from cycle plant powered ultralights to heavy cargo planes), auto-gyros, gliders (trailers of the air), and possibly lighter-than-air craft, balloons, and airships (though these could probably stand to be .pdf only or in an issue of ADQ) . Personally I wouldn't care to see jets. Their fuel cost would be extraordinary, they'd be too fast for the scale, and I just see Car Wars airspace and aeroduelling as being prop-plane and lighter-than-air driven.

Weapons: The only things you would need to add would be bombs/smartbombs and strafing rules for aircraft.

Pedestrians: balloon platforms/harnesses, parachutes, hang gliders, jetpacks and personal rotor systems.

Miniatures/Counters: Hydroduel would do fine with flat counters, Aeroduel would have to be more elaborate (the days of noting your altitude on scratch paper are past). I'd personally like to see 2-d or 2.5-d (like those Styrofoam kids toys) counters, with a few high-quality telescoping canvas eagles style stands.

Movement: Again please stick to the base Car Wars scale, no special scale for aircraft. I'd like to use the same turning key for movement in all three systems.

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by Angrytubist

I've already stated that I think that water and aircraft should be separate from the core set, preferably boxed expansions(i.e. stretch goals for the CW kickstarter).

While I somewhat agree that this would be good to have some sort of stretch goals, I'd like to see all the rules included at once (and if the book is the size of HERO 5th Edition Revised, so be it).

They definitely can break the rules down into core, advanced, alternate/optional rules though.

[kjamma4]

Originally Posted by Angrytubist

Aeroduel would have to be more elaborate (the days of noteing your altitude on scratch paper are past. I'd personally like to see 2-d or 2.5-d (like those Styrofoam kids toys) counters, with a few high-quality telescoping canvas eagles style stands.

If this is what would be included in Aeroduel, I'd opt for that to be an expansion (which I definitely would not be interested in).

The base set should be the rules (and I would not mind if the Aeroduel rules were included) but all those miniatures add cost and in my mind, I'd rather see the cost go to Car Wars rather than other types of vehicles.

Just my $0.02

[Magesmiley]

My basic rule of thumb is that if it requires significantly different rules than those required for cars or motorcycles, it belongs in an expansion.

What does significantly different mean? I would rate the firing arcs for trikes and the rules for keeping a trailer aligned as minor rules differences. Entirely different would include things like dealing with altitude (so all aircraft) or strange rules for movement (such as hovercraft).

[Angrytubist]

If it were up to me I'd treat hovercraft as an omni-terrain vehicle road, off-road, water. but dump the strange maneuvering rules, so you can use your turning key instead of a protractor. probably give them higher acceleration lower carrying capacity than a car of equivalent size, plus added expense. Aircraft should maneuver horizontally similar to other units in the game, though you must account for altitude somehow. I believe the most elegant/fun/visually impressive way to accomplish this is with adjustable height bases for the aircraft counters. this way the bases would be universal and interchangeable. This would help keep the mini's/counters inexpensive and allow the aeroduellist on a budget a lot of variety.

Also, I don't think I'd use an "altitude" or concealment system for subs. I figure all boats in the 21st century have sonar/detector equipment. Instead I'd just say a submerged sub couldn't use or be targeted by above water weapons(though maybe they could release buoy-mines like reverse bombs). And leave them to fight with torpedoes and depth charges.

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by Magesmiley

My basic rule of thumb is that if it requires significantly different rules than those required for cars or motorcycles, it belongs in an expansion.

What does significantly different mean? I would rate the firing arcs for trikes and the rules for keeping a trailer aligned as minor rules differences. Entirely different would include things like dealing with altitude (so all aircraft) or strange rules for movement (such as hovercraft).

I concur. Boats and Hovers are great for RPG-mode, but don't belong in the core. Aircraft - microplanes, helos and blimps, especially - are a major part of the setting fluff, but really do belong together in a supplement. Perhaps a separate kickstarter for Aeroduel and Boat Wars.

Skip the tanks, tho'. They were so different in mechanics that they didn't feel like the same game.

[Pentalarc]

I want to have the same options I had in the old game. The same depth and so forth.

If it's going to be an update, why not a full update, including boats, airplanes, tanks, etc.

Until then, I'll be converting the new stuff.

I don't see why it has to be rebooted. Why can't we just update the background, finish filling out the world, etc?

Or,at least this: How about classic stats for the vehicles/weapons/etc?

Don't get me wrong, I definitely want to see new Car Wars, and a new version is better than nothing. It just seemed to me that too much of hte new version was Car Wars-EZ. Everything simplified, sped up, and so forth. No custom designs, few options, 90% of everything just disappeared.

I love Car Wars, and I want to see it brought back. I just don't want to see it dumbed down.

[thudthwacker]

Originally Posted by Pentalarc

Don't get me wrong, I definitely want to see new Car Wars, and a new version is better than nothing. It just seemed to me that too much of hte new version was Car Wars-EZ. Everything simplified, sped up, and so forth. No custom designs, few options, 90% of everything just disappeared.

I love Car Wars, and I want to see it brought back. I just don't want to see it dumbed down.

After the chilly reception 5e got, I really don't think much of it is going to make an appearance in 6e.

[woodchuck]

No airplanes, tanks, boats, or any of the crap that helped ruin Car Wars in the first place. I thought I wanted those things and now realize they helped ruin a great game. I remember a brief conversation I had with Scott Haring back in 1986, that went something like this. Pacificon in case anyone cares.

Me-Alot of people want airplanes rules for Car Wars.

Scott-*pointing at the Midville map*Something like a P-51 Mustang would be off the map in one turn and do you think it would really add anything to the game?

Me-No, not really but it might be fun.

Alas Scott was right, I quess I own the man an appology.