Healing College - Healing yourself penalty?

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Unless I've gone crazy, that says you don't need the spell in your noggin to cast it as a ritual.

Note that this is specific to the Wizard - Clerics and Druids have to have the spell prepared.

I sit corrected! Thanks. You're right, wizards don't need to do that. Need to have a chat to my DM...

It's still an annoying system in that regard. I enjoy the game I play, but not having access to most of my spells most of the time as a spell caster :(

[Dreadbane]

Originally Posted by Hide

IMO healing yourself is like trying to stop your thirst with your own fluids, or similar to the process in which your body consumes itself when you do not give it enough food;

And when you use the energy from a powerstone, item or familiar? You still do the casting, but it's not your energy.

And even if you use your own energy, if you can create water to stop your thirst, if you can create food to satiate your hunger, why you cannot create some fancy magical "medigel" to seal cuts and protect from infection?

I understand the idea of "weakened body" but when you can create all sort of matter it's quite easy to think of alternatives.

[Inky]

And if the healing is coming from the healer's own body in that way, you'd think that they would lose HP as the patient gained it. Which is a neat idea, but that's not what the Healing advantage does. It's not a zero-sum process.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Inky

And if the healing is coming from the healer's own body in that way, you'd think that they would lose HP as the patient gained it. Which is a neat idea, but that's not what the Healing advantage does. It's not a zero-sum process.

That's how the Rolemaster 'Healer' profession worked, in a way. They transferred injuries, etc. to their own body, healing the other person in the process. They then used magic to heal their own body. It was possible for them to transfer injuries that they could not heal, including ones that would kill them.

[Hide]

Originally Posted by Dreadbane

And when you use the energy from a powerstone, item or familiar? You still do the casting, but it's not your energy (...)

AFAIK:

You don't have a penalty to heal yourself with items (e.g. with a healing potion, or a scroll because all you have to do is "turn the key") or a familiar (because that's another healer). Actually, it is a fairly common for combat medics to heal others with magic and heal themselves with items. You may have penalties if you try to bandage yourself to stop bleeding (bandages are items too) but bandages don't do instant healing and demand a skill roll and your attention. (Note that the scroll I am referring to is not the one that just has the spell written on it, but rather a scroll that works the same as a healing potion "open and use", no casting at all).

On the other hand, the powerstone or the power item with energy reserve transfers you FP to aid your casting; the energy is not floating in the air, it goes/passes inside or trough you and becomes yours... and then you heal yourself as usual (with the penalties).

[Dreadbane]

Originally Posted by Hide

AFAIK:
or a familiar (because that's another healer).

I was talking about ER (granted by familiar), not the familiar being the caster.

Originally Posted by Hide

AFAIK:
On the other hand, the powerstone or the power item with energy reserve transfers you FP to aid your casting; the energy is not floating in the air, it goes/passes inside or trough you and becomes yours... and then you heal yourself as usual (with the penalties).

I don't think this is how it necessary works using the standard spell system (Thaumatology presents some sceneries that are like that). How so?

Mana is the ambient energy and the personal energy is something like a spark to initiate the process. However, with high skill, the caster can cast at no cost. Meaning, the magic is "out there" and knowing how, he doesn't need to tap into his personal energy to make a spell, he just manipulates this "energy field". And therefore, the quality of his body, his personal energy, or how he pollute an energy that crosses his body would be meaningless.

Another example: unliving creatures. Vampires, liches, spirits can cast spells. And nothing prohibits healing magic for them. It's strange to think that healing is about the flux of vital energy when a dead thing can do it.

[Hide]

I see your point, but in the end, this is just an explanation for a rule in the system, it won't be easy to change it because it is there for balance. Perhaps you should discuss about buying an advantage or a perk to deal with the penalty, that will help you improve your character.

Regarding your other comments, I have always considered magicians are magic conductors; they are not some sort of crane that picks magic and then drops it somewhere else. IMO the energy flows through the magician and then it comes out with another shape: The magician is the mold for the energy and the spell is the layout you need to deliver what you want; hence the process is called casting.

If you are very skilled or in a high mana area it just means you tap into the energy and refill very quickly or efficiently. When there's too much mana in the area it becomes risky because it flows through you like burst of high voltage and goes out of control.

I think the penalties to healing yourself with magic will apply to any player character, regardless of being human. But if you refer to leeching vital energy, that is just something else.

[Dreadbane]

Actually, I'm questioning the in-game reason and the off-game balance. I'm failing to realize how this rule is balanced.

- It can be impossible to a healer to self-heal from a massive injury (even if the caster is not that injured....imagine, a dragon or other being with lots of HP, loss of 30 HP when you have 100 HP is not a big deal, but system wise, is a -30 penalty).

- Melee combatants can self-heal using Vampiric Weapon in a more efficient way that a common healing spell.

- The healer (usually a support character) is induced to have contingencies (healing items, ally, perks, regeneration, etc) when the other party members don't need to "dilute" their points (provided that they keep the healer alive). And if the other characters have Vampiric Weapon, first aid, pots and scrolls the healer can be more of "a victim of circumstance" then any other.

About the "magicians are magic conductors", it's open for interpretation, I see them as "reality shapers". There is a topic about sentient machines being able to cast spells if they could get some FP source, like a built-in powerstone, or cast it freely (skill or high mana zone). This doesn't go well with the tap and refill or magic flow theory, after all, machines don't have FP.

[Hide]

Yes, it’s open to interpretation, but aren’t these machines you talk about designed by magic users? They should follow similar principles when it comes to casting magic.

As I see it, FP is just a name for bodily energy. Machines don’t have FP because of their meta-trait, but that doesn’t mean machines can’t process/deal with energy.

[SID]

Some adjustments apply to healing when you have high HP: "Multiply HP healed by 2 at 20-29 HP, by 3 at 30-39 HP" etc. To keep the proportion between HP and skill level, I also adjust healing oneself penalties: “for the calculation of the penalty, divide HP lost by 2 at 20-29 HP, by 3 at 30-39 HP” etc. The dragon with 70/100 HP has a penalty of (30/10) = -3 when healing itself.