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Old 06-01-2021, 03:45 AM   #31
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Default Re: [DF] A Portal Fantasy within a Dungeon Fantasy: Where's Alice?

Traps (Detect Traps) could be an optional specialty which is Per-based by default?
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:29 AM   #32
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Default Re: [DF] A Portal Fantasy within a Dungeon Fantasy: Where's Alice?

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Originally Posted by Hide View Post
Regarding your “guesstimate”, per GURPS power ups 4 ridiculous luck gives you 6 lucky breaks an in-game day. Even if you multiply take alternative yield of ridiculous luck, under the “special case” clause, you acquire 2*6 = 12 luck breaks. With the 1:1 ratio, you roughly had 144 lucky breaks a day (6 calls per hour * 24 hours).

Alice's updated "luck" looks better now.

A lucky break every 30 in-game minutes is about 48 chances to call dice in a day. It is still high compared to the examples, but it is clearer and more transparent.

Regarding her skills:

Since Alice is a child or a teenager, I would change diplomacy for fast-talk.

Knife is fine, for her. I think the shortsword skill is out of character, it is out of her "original dimension" context; if you want her to use a sword, she could do knife -4 instead. Or if you REALLY want her to use a sword (Vorpal Blade), give her smallsword (you could say she took fencing lessons); the fencing bonus will be good for her.

Taking a bit from GURPS Action II, the traps skill lets you detect traps (doing Per-based Traps roll). That might keep it simpler for you and the players.
My math on Ridiculous Luck specifically refers to the max multiplier suggested in that supplement, that of 7. Ridiculous Luck typically functions six times per real time hour; thus, the amount of uses per game day yields us 42 uses. If we divide that by the number of hours in a game day, we come to the result of 1.75 uses of Ridiculous Luck per in-game hour, or one use per in-game 30 minutes. This is within the RAW, or we could debate whether or not we should round up here but I suspect there's no such thing as 75% of a Ridiculous Luck use.

Shortsword is convenient because the Vorpal Blade as written in the module is a shortsword.
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:36 AM   #33
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Default Re: [DF] A Portal Fantasy within a Dungeon Fantasy: Where's Alice?

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Regarding your “guesstimate”, per GURPS power ups 4 ridiculous luck gives you 6 lucky breaks an in-game day. Even if you multiply take alternative yield of ridiculous luck, under the “special case” clause, you acquire 2*6 = 12 luck breaks. With the 1:1 ratio, you roughly had 144 lucky breaks a day (6 calls per hour * 24 hours).
It's not inappropriate to compare a campaign/story arc with a season of a television show, with each session comparable to an episode within that. PU4's suggestion of "One RL hour is one in-game day" is for whatever the authors thought of as a "typical" game. For a show like Law and Order, 1hr->1day is probably too often, as normal Luck would typically mean one use per scene. For a show like 24, it's clearly not often enough, as normal Luck would typically mean one use per campaign. Heck, for 24, Tymathee's 1:1 ratio wouldn't be often enough, given it would mean normal Luck was one use per session.

Basically, n uses per hour abilities should be ~6n uses per game session. How long in-game a typical game session covers would dictate what the ratio for Game-Time would be. If a typical game session covers about a week of in-game time, trading a RL hour for a game day is appropriate. If a typical game session covers about a month of in-game time, trading a RL hour for a game week may be appropriate. If a typical game session covers about an hour of in-game time, trading a RL hour for 10 in-game minutes may well be appropriate.
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Old 06-01-2021, 08:41 AM   #34
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Default Re: [DF] A Portal Fantasy within a Dungeon Fantasy: Where's Alice?

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Traps (Detect Traps) could be an optional specialty which is Per-based by default?
Yes, it can be. It is a common house rule to disregard the exclusivity of optional specialties to only IQ. It also seems genre appropriate.
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Old 06-01-2021, 09:21 AM   #35
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Default Re: [DF] A Portal Fantasy within a Dungeon Fantasy: Where's Alice?

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*snip*
I've been trying my best to convey the concepts of "slow time" and "fast time" to Hide, but to no avail. I would imagine DF typically has a great deal of "slow time", in the form of combat and dungeon crawling that emphasizes the minute-by-minute play. The the state of the advantage that I've altered it to is now RAW compliant, so hopefully we don't have to spend any more time quibbling over the details of it.
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Old 06-01-2021, 11:24 AM   #36
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Default Re: [DF] A Portal Fantasy within a Dungeon Fantasy: Where's Alice?

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I've been trying my best to convey the concepts of "slow time" and "fast time" (...)
My comments are regardless of that. The NPC's former opportunity area was that the number of lucky breaks were not clear and also were heavily based on GM discretion and GM time-control support; but you worked it and that has changed.

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Basically, n uses per hour abilities should be ~6n uses per game session (...)
Indeed, that is in the spirit of adding clarity to luck as it was originally described.

If Tymathee's sessions will last 8 real time hours, then 48 lucky breaks make sense with ridiculous luck. But taking my gaming experience and looking at examples such as critical role or NADDPod, typical gaming sessions last about 4 hours and sometimes include breaks (which reduces (in-game time) ridiculous luck's lucky breaks to something from 12-24).

Under this scope, 48 lucky breaks are still out of proportion. It still gives a vibe of "She is superior and you can't beat her", remember that your players chances of having such an ability is very low or taxing under their starting conditions.

For example, the Vorpal Sword could be very powerful, but the players might be able to snatch it or to acquire something similar. With luck, it is another story, you have to buy it from the start.

Also, it is great that Alice will get a Vorpal Sword at some point in the game, but that does not mean she was prepared to wield it. Giving her the shortsword skill before she gets the sword evokes meta-gaming. Just to give you an extreme example of it: It’s like building a peasant character that lived in a barn without cars, but you know he will get the Knight Rider’s car in the future… so you decided to give him driving (car) beforehand.
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Old 06-01-2021, 11:44 AM   #37
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Default Re: [DF] A Portal Fantasy within a Dungeon Fantasy: Where's Alice?

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If Tymathee's sessions will last 8 real time hours, then 48 lucky breaks make sense with ridiculous luck. But taking my gaming experience and looking at examples such as critical role or NADDPod, typical gaming sessions last about 4 hours and sometimes include breaks (which reduces ridiculous luck's lucky breaks to 18-24).

Under this scope, 48 lucky breaks are still out of proportion. it still gives a vibe of "She is superior and you can't beat her", remember that your players chances of having such an ability is very low or taxing under their starting conditions.
If Tymathee's sessions only have 3 hours of playtime (for up to 18 lucky breaks), but also tend to only cover around 3 hours of exploration, puzzle solving, negotiating, and combat, then his 1:1 ratio is just fine - characters still get the same amount of utility out of their time-limited Advantages. And if you have a lot of "slow time," you may well only cover that much each session. If they tend to cover a couple days with each session, however, then his ratio is out of whack.

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Also, it is great that Alice will get a Vorpal Sword at some moment in the game, but that does not mean she was prepared to wield it. Giving her the shortsword skill before she gets the sword evokes meta-gaming. Just to give you an extreme example of it: It’s like building a peasant character that lived in a barn without cars, but you know he will get the Knight Rider’s car in the future… so you decided to give him driving (car) beforehand.
Seeing as Tymathee's version of Alice is an adventurous noblewoman in a DF setting, it's entirely appropriate for her to be skilled with some sort of weapon. The fact she later finds a special weapon that happens to be of the same type as she favors is no more suspicious than the GM deciding the magical weapon the party just found happens to be of the same type as the party's main fighter prefers. Alternatively, given "vorpal" was a nonsense word to start with, we could depart from the typical interpretation (that the blade is particularly sharp and deadly) and state the "vorpal" quality is one in which the weapon changes form to match the user's preferred weapon. Maybe it's a halberd when Alice first finds it, but when she picks it up it magically transforms into a Shortsword-class (or Smallsword-class, which is arguably more appropriate for a noble woman) weapon of whatever design she prefers.

EDIT: Looking it up, it appears "snicker-snack" may well be related to snickersnee, a term used to refer to a large knife (itself from snick or snee, a term for knife fighting). So a knife-like sword - which could be anything from a fairly short sword (knifelike on account of it's length) to a rather large Grosse Messer (knifelike by appearance) - would be entirely appropriate here. Note the poem never says the hero decapitated the Jaberwocky during the fight, but rather that he took the creature's head back with him after slaying it... much as Beowulf did to Grendel when he found the creature's corpse. Indeed, "One, two! One, two! And through and through" implies several blows needed to defeat the monster, rather than a single decapitating strike.
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Old 06-01-2021, 11:55 AM   #38
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Default Re: [DF] A Portal Fantasy within a Dungeon Fantasy: Where's Alice?

Well, now that it appears we can cease the discussion of the use of the Game Time modifier on her Ridiculous Luck (it began with understanding it ought to be +0%... and has now ended back at that +0%. We've come full circle!)

There's a great deal of ad infinitum amounts of variables involved in concerns of time usage. Should we be opening this can of worms?

I will not be swayed to remove her Ridiculous Luck as I've defined it with the now RAW implementation of the modifier. In order for the narrative of this story arc to make sense she needs this level of Ridiculous Luck to have survived the perils of Dungeonland, at least up till the trial where the PCs will arrive just in time to make sure she does not become decapitated by a insane mob of Dungeonlandians.

If you want to nerf her Ridiculous Luck or even take it away I find it hard to even imagine how she managed to survive. I'm less concerned about how the players will feel about being one-upped by a little girl. If anything, it is wholly appropriate to the humorous degree of adversarial style of GM'ing that Gary Gygax wants you to run the modules with.

~~~

Remember, this is DF, where it is often assumed that roaming bands of adventurers who delve dangerous depths for profit are ubiquitous within the setting. Silly as it may be, within a DF dungeon crawling setting it is quite plausible that the education system for youth involves teaching them adventuring relevant skills. Like how we often aspire to become doctors or engineers or astronauts in our reality, perhaps the youth of a DF setting might aspire to become professional adventurers.

"Daddy, when I grow up I want to become a cobbler!"

"No sweety, be realistic about your career goals. I'm putting you through an expensive education so one day you can join the Adventurer's Guild and become successful. That's a real career."
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Old 06-01-2021, 12:19 PM   #39
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Default Re: [DF] A Portal Fantasy within a Dungeon Fantasy: Where's Alice?

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Remember, this is DF, where it is often assumed that roaming bands of adventurers who delve dangerous depths for profit are ubiquitous within the setting. Silly as it may be, within a DF dungeon crawling setting it is quite plausible that the education system for youth involves teaching them adventuring relevant skills. Like how we often aspire to become doctors or engineers or astronauts in our reality, perhaps the youth of a DF setting might aspire to become professional adventurers.

"Daddy, when I grow up I want to become a cobbler!"

"No sweety, be realistic about your career goals. I'm putting you through an expensive education so one day you can join the Adventurer's Guild and become successful. That's a real career."
In DF I expect delving to be something done by members of society lower than nobles, due to the dangers inherent in the profession. I also assume delvers tend to function more like typical pirates did - go delving until you get a big "score," drink and party until out of cash, then go back to delving. That said, you could easily have a noble girl (I had forgotten how old Alice is) who dreams of becoming an adventurer, and who's parents have opted to acquire a sword instructor to humor and placate her until she grows out of it and turns her mind to more useful endeavors, like land management (or marrying into royalty, or whatever). The fact she acquires skill in self-defense may well be useful, making her less likely to end up a damsel in distress, is an added bonus (or maybe the crown prince - who is only a few years older than her - appears to have a thing for strong women, and her being able to handle herself in a fight would make her more attractive to him than her peers, while allowing his family to marry him to a proper noble instead of some lowborn adventurer he sets his eyes on).
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Old 06-01-2021, 12:41 PM   #40
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Default Re: [DF] A Portal Fantasy within a Dungeon Fantasy: Where's Alice?

Idea: the Vorpal Sword can reconfigure itself to best fit the wielder. Whether the form it takes is a conscious choice by the wielder or an automatic choice by the blade is up for discussion.
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